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The meeting at Sound Choice was AWESOME!

Joe,

No one holds any animosity towards you, but the absolutes that you take with your positions give most cause to believe that you are defending those that would involve themselves in piracy.

When you constantly argue against any actions taken and/or the results those actions are having, it gives rise to the thought that either you are lost in a world of your own or involved in the act yourself.

I know, you don't believe that is what you are doing, but in the areas that Sound Choice has filed suits against pirates the retoric that you are putting forward is exactly what we see from them.

You were honestly invited to the meeting and you could have met face to face with everyone there it was your choice not to come. Had you been there you would have been part of the discusion just as each and everyone of us were. And yes we did discuss each of our positions on piracy, to be perfectly honest many simply don't know what your position is on the subject.

Had you been there you would have had the whole story on many of the discontinued disc instead of the conjecture you have from others.

I am sorry if my being honest with you hurt your feelings, but you chose to make it public, I did do it through a PM between me and you. But there was a reason for it, the fact that you were complaining to the moderators trying to get me banned had a very large part in my reaction, I never took well to those that run to the teacher saying "look what that mean boy did to me"! The "non sequitur" you keep responding to me with was also part of it. If you want to debate a topic without trying to talk down to me then I have no problem with it, but when you or anyone else does then I will react in a manner that you may not like. You also keep talking about your IP attorney as if he was the answer to all of this, but you don't seem to realize that for every attorney that is correct there is one that is wrong.
 
Thunder said:
Joe,

No one holds any animosity towards you, but the absolutes that you take with your positions give most cause to believe that you are defending those that would involve themselves in piracy.

When you constantly argue against any actions taken and/or the results those actions are having, it gives rise to the thought that either you are lost in a world of your own or involved in the act yourself.

I know, you don't believe that is what you are doing, but in the areas that Sound Choice has filed suits against pirates the retoric that you are putting forward is exactly what we see from them.

You were honestly invited to the meeting and you could have met face to face with everyone there it was your choice not to come. Had you been there you would have been part of the discusion just as each and everyone of us were. And yes we did discuss each of our positions on piracy, to be perfectly honest many simply don't know what your position is on the subject.

Had you been there you would have had the whole story on many of the discontinued disc instead of the conjecture you have from others.

I am sorry if my being honest with you hurt your feelings, but you chose to make it public, I did do it through a PM between me and you. But there was a reason for it, the fact that you were complaining to the moderators trying to get me banned had a very large part in my reaction, I never took well to those that run to the teacher saying "look what that mean boy did to me"! The "non sequitur" you keep responding to me with was also part of it. If you want to debate a topic without trying to talk down to me then I have no problem with it, but when you or anyone else does then I will react in a manner that you may not like. You also keep talking about your IP attorney as if he was the answer to all of this, but you don't seem to realize that for every attorney that is correct there is one that is wrong.
Click to expand...


Seems you can't have a differing opinion on methodology, Joe, without being put on the "other" team. Makes you all warm and fuzzy and pink inside, doesn't it?

As for attorneys, Thunder, you're right, but did you ever take a moment to think it may not be Joe's that is incorrect...that it might be the one that is strongarming legal people to settle?

Why did you have Joe post this? So you could start a discussion to put Joe and anyone who has a differing opinion in a negative light? The guy hasn't done anything wrong -- simply standing on his principles and stating his opinions. However, when they differ with the Cheerleaders, that isn't okay...here. The whole thing reaks.
 
Just out of curiosity: Who among those in attendance have since returned home without making a purchase?
 
While I probably spent the most, I did not feel the need to. No one held a gun to my head and said buy it or I shoot you.
 
running 3 sysytems and discs costing only $3 we spent a bit over $500.00 very happy with the purchases:biggrinpill: plan on taking a bit to spend in march as well in case CB makes great offers:biggrinpill:
 
Birdofsong said:
Seems you can't have a differing opinion on methodology, Joe, without being put on the "other" team. Makes you all warm and fuzzy and pink inside, doesn't it?

When the difference is to the detriment of the legal side of the business that puts you squarely on the other team. If that makes ytou feel all warm and fuzzy then that is cool.

As for attorneys, Thunder, you're right, but did you ever take a moment to think it may not be Joe's that is incorrect...that it might be the one that is strongarming legal people to settle?

Yes and a lot depends on the attorney as well as the Jury, I mean what the heck OJ was found not quilty!


Why did you have Joe post this? So you could start a discussion to put Joe and anyone who has a differing opinion in a negative light? The guy hasn't done anything wrong -- simply standing on his principles and stating his opinions. However, when they differ with the Cheerleaders, that isn't okay...here. The whole thing reaks.
Click to expand...

I did not twist Joe's arm, I am no where near him, so I could not physically make him post anything. It was entirely his choice to post a Private Message I have received some rather nasty ones in the past year but they are Private Messages so I keep them that way.

Again didn't make him do anything, actually he posted part of it and then threatened me with posting the rest, I told him to go ahead. The problem is he didn't get the results he was looking for!

However, if it is OK with you for everyone to post PMs just say so!
 
I found myself "Friends" with people on different sides and had to make the decision that PMs were PMs and info in them wouldn't be posted or shared with other "friends." I hope I have kept to it. It is either that or be afraid to PM.
 
Proformance said:
Just out of curiosity: Who among those in attendance have since returned home without making a purchase?
Click to expand...

While at the meeting I bought 60+ disks at $3.00 and another 20+ disks at regular price. Since coming back I've bought 11 more Chartbuster disks. The best of 2010 Pop and Country being my latest purchases.

Like Athena, I'll be bringing some extra cash when we go to Chartbuster in March.
 
Thunder said:
I did not twist Joe's arm, I am no where near him, so I could not physically make him post anything. It was entirely his choice to post a Private Message I have received some rather nasty ones in the past year but they are Private Messages so I keep them that way.

Again didn't make him do anything, actually he posted part of it and then threatened me with posting the rest, I told him to go ahead. The problem is he didn't get the results he was looking for!

However, if it is OK with you for everyone to post PMs just say so!
Click to expand...

How on earth can you justify trying to vilify Joe when you TOLD HIM TO POST it? He called you on an outright lie you made to him. You tried to say that you never had him on ignore which prompted him to then quote a portion of a PM (and a very innocuous portion at that!) in which you stated you did, indeed, have him on ignore. You then told him to post the rest, which he did:
Thunder said:
Joe please post the rest of the PM LOL
Click to expand...
So don't sit there and try and make it something it wasn't.
My goodness, I think that whiplash just might be catching!. Enough, already, Thunder.
 
Proformance said:
Just out of curiosity: Who among those in attendance have since returned home without making a purchase?
Click to expand...

I was there from beginning to end and didn't buy anything but a few disc that I would have ordered online otherwise. Same as if I were to drive over to Chartbuster's retail store 20 min. away from my home. What is the point of your question?
 
Thunder said:
Joe,

1) No one holds any animosity towards you,


2) but the absolutes that you take with your positions give most cause to believe that you are defending those that would involve themselves in piracy.


3) I am sorry if my being honest with you hurt your feelings, .
Click to expand...


1) I don't believe anyone does, Steve. I merely believe that you attempted to convey that they do in your PM for some reason.

2) Really? A poll, if I may: Who here, besides Thunder, actually believes that I am pro-piracy?


3) To be blunt, Steve, as proven on another thread, you haven't been very honest lately. Your comments about CB licensing, your statements about me being put on ignore ( discredited with a posted quote from you on the CB SCDG forum outright), and so far, at least part of the statement referred to here.

As for hurt feelings, you forget my rhino skin and my thoughts about internet forums. I posted your statement because 1) YOU asked me to, and 2) I DON'T believe it's true, and Lone, at least, seems to agree. That take the "every" out of it right away.


I truly like your good side, Steve, ( yes, I know you have one, and how much fun that person is) but you are losing credibility at an alarming rate.


What would be interesting would be another attendee's desciption of how you "defended" me....:wubpill:
 
Thunder said:
Again didn't make him do anything, actually he posted part of it and then threatened me with posting the rest, I told him to go ahead. The problem is he didn't get the results he was looking for!
Click to expand...


I THREATENED you? Um, as you stated, we are no where near each other. Do you mean to say that I posted a THREAT? Please re- post that THREAT here.

What happened was that I caught Steve fabricating. He said - in a public post- that he never said he was putting me on ignore, and I should stop calling him a liar. Since this was not a PM, I had to respond- which I did by posting a quote from that PM stating that he was putting me on "ignore" and will no longer be responding to my posts.

Since this proved that he DID lie, and the fact that he is responding means that the CONTENT of the statement in the PM was also a lie, as he DIDN'T put me on ignore. He lied twice.


I then ASKED HIM if he wanted me to post the other stuff- and he posted publicly that he did. I posted publicly that I thought this might hurt his credibility even more, but he didn't change his mind....

Now, as for a THREAT, once again, I ask you to post it here...

Many of you may notice that I am being a bit less laid back with Steve than usual. Again, this isn't about hurt feelings or being insulted- these don't apply to me. Rhino skin, remember? At this point, it's about the forum in general. This forum, when it was still part of OKJT, was a relaxed and happy place to be where people shared stories, information, and even debated with respect and good feelings toward each other.

At first, I put the blame on the rather intense SC debates. Then I realized that this was not the problem. I have been on opposite sides of this debate with LoneAvenger, Rumbolt, Mantis, Athena, Skid, Danny G, and others - even Kurt Slep of Sound Choice. I recall no flames, insults, or negative personalizations being received by me from ANY of these good folks- again, I include Kurt here.

So what seems to be dragging the forum south? It is now my personal belief ( my opinion only- speaking only for myself that one or two posters are working very hard to elicit emotional negative personal responses. I'm not sure of the reasons- I have only guesses.

Side Note- Some History: Back in the day, when politicians would debate in small venues ( before TV) some would bring in people who would call out diversionary questions and statements if they were unsure of their positions on the most important issues in order to sidetrack the debate away from those issues.

I have no idea if the above has any application here- heck, they may be doing it for entertainment purposes.

All I know is that it's taking the best forum I've ever been associated with, involving some of the best and normally most pleasant people I've ever associated with on a forum, and running it into the ground.

I think the mods are doing the best they can here, but we need to do more to save the forum. How? Not really hard at all. Civility.

As shown by all those folks that have debated with me in an honest and repectable manner, it can be done. Keep in mind that I have called out people on "my side" of the SC debate and asked them to leave the flames out of it.

Don't want to get all sticky ooky here, but how about a joining on all sides. If you see an inflammatory post- by this I mean PERSONAL, not issue based, call it out. It doesn't matter which "side" the poster is on- it's been proven unneccesary.. Please help make it stop, and help make this forum what it once was- the absolute best place on the net to be...

}}} taking deep breath{{{{ Ok, apologies for the rant- but not the content. Give peace a chance.
 
I am really baffled by the accusation made, of ALL the people here on the board I find Joe's post to USUALLY be the most insightful and pleasant. The fact that Joe was flamed during a meeting (if it was true) just totally amazes me. I have never read anything from him supporting piracy, he is still disc based which spits right in the eye of piracy assumptions. How does someone draw the conclusion he would side with piracy. He has his own beliefs and principles. Julie said it best, it would appear that if you don't give your soul to the manufactures every whim, then the cheerleaders lump you into a group of "Others" or "Outsiders" or "Trouble Makers".

Why must it be this way?

I myself have offered to do my part as far as reporting craigslists ads etc...and I still do it, yet everything I post is met with scrutiny as well. Just because I choose to not call myself a cheerleader?

Just for the record, I have found no fault with Debi, or her posts for the most part. I truly believe she is in it for the right reasons. I also have no problem with their voluntary audits. Its audits that are forced that make me have doubts, and the reasoning behind the audits.

As for blaming piracy as the sole reason for your decreased income, I find that hard to swallow, for reasons that have been stated by Joe, Chip, Pro, and numerous others.
I don't like piracy anymore than the rest of you, but I am smart enough to know that no matter what is done by SC or CB or anyone else, piracy will always be there. You may bust a few, and you may shut down a few sites that support it, but you will never abolish it as a whole. The only way that it would ever be diminished would be by killing the internet altogether and we all know that will never happen. So I would suggest to just figure out what makes you successful, just having the brand name discs doesn't make you any better, you need something that really helps. I just started using props for example after seeing someone here mention it, and it has gone over big. Things like this and other creative ideas are what pack butts in seats and keep your bookings lined up. Instead of focusing all your time and words, and efforts on piracy and how its hurting you, focus instead on making yourself better than the rest in your area.

Just my two cents.
 
to the best of my knoledge Joe was not "flammed" at the meeting in anyway.I think it would have been great to put the persoality with the avatar:biggrinpill:
 
He was mentioned. We mentioned we wished he was there so he could be enlightened :)
 
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