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Fighting Back

Joe,

It wasn't an attempt at humor your post was very convoluted and you addressed issue that you said were not a concern in different areas and it became a mish mash.

What point were you wanting to debate?

It became a thread about the end justifying the means, everyone here saw it. You remember, like it's ok to bring 49 innocents to jail if you get the ONE who did the crime? That thread? Remember?

You have confused me with someone else or you totally misread what I said in that thread. I never said it was OK to jail 49 to get the one who commited the crime!

I said it was OK to question 50 to jail the one who commited the crime.... A HUGE difference!
 
Moonrider said:
The filed complaint specifically demands a jury trial. You can find a link to the full 41 page filing in the article linked here

A Jury trial is demanded on all issues so triable! (and that is just a small thing)

I know Mighty Mike is going to be tickled when he see this one "Super Dave" has been named as well. Another KJ with a huge library and no disc! This guy ended up taking just about every gig MM had in the Manasass area by undercutting his rate!
 
i had heard from a regular singer in the area that SD had discs they were just ALL chewed up. Coulda been copied discs. I D K.

Funny how MM & SD are so close to me and Ive only met MM once and haven't seen SD in 7 years.

I've never heard SD went to pc. Doesn't suprise me the least tho. I thought he was the ONLY kj in DC area using cdg's. Guess I was wrong.

SD has been around long enough. He has to have SOME kinda ld or cdg's.

And Joe, your last comment to me was WAY off the mark and probably uncalled for.

LM
 
Man!

There's a lot of BS flyin' around this thread I hope I don't have to go reading it all and you guys are keeping it civil..... I just hope I don't get hit with any of the mud slinging I just had this shirt pressed. :sqlaugh:
 
Thunder said:
Joe,

It wasn't an attempt at humor your post was very convoluted and you addressed issue that you said were not a concern in different areas and it became a mish mash.

What point were you wanting to debate?

It became a thread about the end justifying the means, everyone here saw it. You remember, like it's ok to bring 49 innocents to jail if you get the ONE who did the crime? That thread? Remember?

You have confused me with someone else or you totally misread what I said in that thread. I never said it was OK to jail 49 to get the one who commited the crime!

I said it was OK to question 50 to jail the one who commited the crime.... A HUGE difference!

Read your own post again. I won't post it. I love ya bro, but you've gotten into a habit of ignoring inarguable posts. Not picking on you, just sayin'....

As for a debating point- for the zillionth time- I'll do it again, and piecework, so you can debate EACH point directly- no questions or subject change. A quote from one of Eric's posts- and a repetition of mine:

"2. What agency does SC actually have regarding other manufacturers?
3. Is SC actually auditing all tracks on a HD including non-SC tracks?
4. Without said agency, what can SC do about a pirate who has non-SC tracks?
5. After settling with SC, what will a shrewd pirate do with the thousands of non-SC tracks that are on his HD?"

DIRECT answers to these four questions. Please do not refer to previous hard to find posts, or answer with another question, or discuss relevancy. Just answer directly please. If you don't or won't, I will have to assume "Can't"

And an added question- same type of answer requested:

Repeating: SC's goal is NOT about fighting piracy. SC PRESIDENT states this clearly. They have no PLAN to fight piracy. WHY do so many, including yourself, hold them up as a force to fight piracy?

Again, no referrals to old, unfindable posts, no question, no relevancy discussion- just a straight answer if possible.....

THANKS! :sqwink:
 
Thunder said:
A Jury trial is demanded on all issues so triable! (and that is just a small thing)

I know Mighty Mike is going to be tickled when he see this one "Super Dave" has been named as well. Another KJ with a huge library and no disc! This guy ended up taking just about every gig MM had in the Manasass area by undercutting his rate!


Um, you previously stated that these cases would only go in front of a federal judge- no jury. Were you mistaken then, or now?
 
jokerswild said:
Man!

There's a lot of BS flyin' around this thread I hope I don't have to go reading it all and you guys are keeping it civil..... I just hope I don't get hit with any of the mud slinging I just had this shirt pressed. :sqlaugh:

All good by me. Still love the Thunder-man- but he ain't gettin' tongue 'til he shaves....:sqlaugh:
 
Joe, Eric,

I have come to the conclusion that you guys must be right, because i must be wrong!

Sound Choice must be evil because they are going after the people who have stolen from them!

No case will ever make it to court because Sound Choice doesn't want it to!

So it really doesn't matter if it is heard before a Judge or a Jury! Or at least the matters in the case that are so triable!

So there is no point in debating this any longer becaue you all have convinced me!:sqbiggrin:
 
JoeChartreuse said:
DIRECT answers to these four questions. Please do not refer to previous hard to find posts, or answer with another question, or discuss relevancy. Just answer directly please. If you don't or won't, I will have to assume "Can't"

Thunder said:
So there is no point in debating this any longer becaue you all have convinced me!:sqbiggrin:

Sounds like your assumption is correct.
 
Joe,

Not to refer you to any other post i will just copy and paste it and from this thread!

As you can see these questions were answered by me as to my opinion on them, which is all any of us have, right now!

But no matter how many times I repeat myself you nor Eric seen to even notice that i posted them!

So again we are at a point where you guys must be right and I must be wrong, so there really is no point in debating the subject!



Thunder:

I don't know what it is that you believe that I expect you to agree with me on?

There are a bunch of issues that you don't care about and that's you prerogative.

I stated many things i questioned that you say are not a problem. So, that's the world as you see it!
And if you know the answer to any of the following questions I have posed, please enlighten us all


1. How does it benefit me when a pirate purchases discs from SC and he stays in business? When he is investing in the product his bottom line changes and the benifit is the price going up for everyone including you!
2. What agency does SC actually have regarding other manufacturers?
I wish I understood the question but i don't, I will make a stab at what i think you are refering to! Sound Choice represents Sound Choice, but if they are successful in this this effort other Manus will follow suit! What a pirate who doesn't want to comply will be left with for music will be the defunct brands like Nutech and All Hits (not much of a selection is it?)
3. Is SC actually auditing all tracks on a HD including non-SC tracks? Does it make any difference if to Sound Choice audits anyone elses music (probably not) and they don't need to be concerned with it
4. Without said agency, what can SC do about a pirate who has non-SC tracks? As previously stated if Sound Choice is successful the other manus still in business will follow suit!
5. After settling with SC, what will a shrewd pirate do with the thousands of non-SC tracks that are on his HD? It seems I am answering the same question over and over here please see the previous answers about "other manus"!
6. What is the experience level and qualifications of those performing the audit? Does it make any difference? How hard is it to compare the files with the disc numbers, if the pirate has used his own tag system (not very likely for someone with 50,000+ songs) then it will be a matter of playing the files and comparing them to the disc, yes time consuming but certianly not that difficult. Sound Choice would know what songs were on what disc and the logos and screen colors have changed several times over the years, pinpoint what disc which files came from is not that hard to do!
7. If someone has any substantial number of pirated SC tracks why would they agree to an audit in the first place? Yet, one poster (Mr Cowles) claims he did just that. Why did he go through the audit? Why didn't he just say you got me! Well if you are charged you have two choices audit voluntarily or aduit under discovery by court order! Which would you choose?
8. If we are to take what Mr Cowles says at face value, he wasn't a complete pirate anyway! He had, from what he says, a much larger investment in karaoke discs than the average KJ! So, IMHO, there are more important "fish" to hook than Mr Cowles in the fight to eliminate piracy, perhaps he was targeted because SC believed that he was in a position to and would cooperate with the settlement offer? And he did to the tune of $13000! Apparently, (and you nor I either one knows for a fact) he had enough pirated files that he felt it was prudent to settle, and that is a smart business man!
9. Why should I be excited to know Mr Cowles is delighted with the deal that SC cut him? I don't think anyone said you should be excited! However I am happy that Mr. Cowels was pleased with the deal he got
10. What happens if SC finds one set of SC tracks that was ripped from a disc that is unavailable at the time of audit? (I believe that Kurt Slep has already addressed that issue, it is up to you to believe him or not!
11. What happens during an audit if there is a substantial, or even small amount of missing sales receipts? I don't know I haven't yet been through an audit, but considering the nature of the beast the only sales receipts you should need would be for files which you couldn't produce a disc for!
12. What about receipts on thermal paper that have faded and can no longer be read? Produce the disc and it is a non issue!
13. Why isn't SC putting pirates out of business rather than supporting them? They are! There are two choices for those charged for and guilty of "TRADEMARK VIOLATION", comply or leave the business, I have already seen two disappear and I have heard of others as well, I got another call today from a place in Richmond Virginia desperate for a KJ, I was sorry but I couldn't help him even though he offered me $500 a night to drop my Wednesday night show and come to his place! His KJ disappeared last week and won't return phone calls! As I was talking with him he told me the KJ that has been working for him for the past 2 years was computer based and had well over 100,000 songs! I asked him if he had ever seen the KJ use disc, he told me that he had never used disc at his place for KJing or DJing!
This is just one that has "left the business" (in other words Sound Choice is "putting pirates out of business" and you can refer this back to your question #1 as well!!
 
I've been reading these threads for awhile. I am based in Richmond, VA , Although Most of my business is in the areas around Richmond ( Mechanicsville, and King William ) I have been in this Area Running Karaoke and Dj'ing For about 7 years so obviously i was included in the Sound Choice Precedings. My company has already met with them, been through all of the legal mumbo jumbo, and now we are in the clear. I was involved and can say that i still 100 percent support what they are doing. Here's the way I look at it, Soundchoice has told me directly that very soon they will be using the money from these suits to start producing music in full force again, How can that be a bad thing? And anyone that was involved will most likely be getting rid of any other pirated tracks they had besides just soundchoice because other company's will follow suit and For any smart business owner that is not a risk to take lightly. Then, those company's will need to go to Chartbuster, Pop hits, etc....to buy new discs, which only strengthens the income of those company's as well resulting in better quality and selection of Karaoke as a whole from all company's. I see this as the best thing to happen to the Karaoke industry since i've been a part of it. And as to people tucking tale and running, I did just pick up 2 new nights a week in the Richmond Area because the company that has been there for the last year decided to close up shop. So This whole situation has definitely been a positive for my company. I like the way the future of Karaoke is looking.
 
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Thunder said:
7. If someone has any substantial number of pirated SC tracks why would they agree to an audit in the first place? Yet, one poster (Mr Cowles) claims he did just that. Why did he go through the audit? Why didn't he just say you got me! Well if you are charged you have two choices audit voluntarily or aduit under discovery by court order! Which would you choose?

This is just one example and a perfect one at that Thunder stating his opinion as if it is a fact. And in answering the question he posed, I'll use a "Thunder" tactic and state that I WOULD CHOOSE NEITHER!

I, for one, am not sure what "discovery" will involve regarding this matter?

I say that the plaintiff needs to put their investigator on the stand and have him provide a list of the SC tracks that he observed played during his investigation. I also believe that the plaintiff would then have to explain to the court why that specific list would be unusual to the point where it justified bringing a law suit!

Considering the uniqueness of the suit, considering that it will set a precedent if it actual comes to trial, considering that there is no previous case to study and therefore no FACTUAL MATERIAL to KNOW what the court will order of a defendant, this is what is likely to happen if the plaintiff convinces the court that "something is rotten in Denmark" as to the defendant's use of the specified SC tracks.

The court is likely to demand that the tracks used by the defendant as observed by the plaintiff's investigator must be correlated with a purchased discs that should be in the defendant's possession. That to me is ALL the discovery that is necessary.

But let's not forget that there are shows that primarily play customer disc/tracks and some of those tracks witnessed by the investigator may have been played from a customer's disc, not from the operators library!

If it seems clear to the court that the defendant cannot produce adequate support to prove he did nothing wrong, what more would the court need in the way evidence at that point?

As to an audit of the entire library, there is no test case regarding trademark law that has deemed having a trademark on a file on you computer is an infringement of said trademark!

Besides, if the defendant is a pirate, it is unlikely that an audit of his computer file is needed by the court in order for the plaintiff to win his case, the tracks named by the investigator should be quite adequate for determining guilt.

And didn't someone say each infraction can result in a fine of $250,000. Well, I figure that the investigator probably found several dozen displays of the SC trademark in order for SC to proceed with their complaint.

What does 24 x $250,000 work out to? With that realization, I don't think that the court will find a need to audit the entire library of the pirate?

So, if a pirate has a substantial number of un-purchased SC tracks why not fess up, pay the 6500, agree to a future audit to confirm that he has remained in compliance and be done with it?

And if Thunder is suggesting that SC is insisting that even those who freely admit guilt must submit, nonetheless, to the SC audit, inquisitive/cynical people want to know why?
 
Again Eric,

If a bullfrog had wings he wouldn't bump his **** everytime he hopped!

This is all hypothesis, mine, yours, Joes, and everyone elses EXCEPT for those who have posted here that have already been through the process and either settled or were cleared!

Funny thing I have noticed is those who have settled or were cleared seem to be saying exactly the opposite of what you and Joe contend!

It amazes how how perfectly uninformed you are on this whole matter, I guess once you get it in your head that it is going to be a certain way then your eyes close completely and you stumble blindly into the night!

Good luck and God bless!
 
Yeah i've gotta say that my company has a close working Relationship with 2 other Richmond based companies and i can tell you that we all share the same views. We think this is going to be a positive for the industry as a whole. And i speak for those of us who were actually involved in the suit.
 
Anyone know what is happening with the clubs named in Va?

Are they being offered the same kind of settlement?
 
Mantis1 said:
Anyone know what is happening with the clubs named in Va?

Are they being offered the same kind of settlement?

I don't know that they could even sue the venue.... as long as the venue has paid all it's fees for live music, DJ and Karaoke to BMI and the such... I don't think SC can touch them unless they have and maintain their own system.
 
jokerswild said:
I don't know that they could even sue the venue.... as long as the venue has paid all it's fees for live music, DJ and Karaoke to BMI and the such... I don't think SC can touch them unless they have and maintain their own system.

The venues are being charged with contributory infringement. Sound Choice is alleging that the venues had reason to know, or suspect, their KJ was using illegal music and did nothing to stop them.
 
Moonrider said:
The venues are being charged with contributory infringement. Sound Choice is alleging that the venues had reason to know, or suspect, their KJ was using illegal music and did nothing to stop them.

Sounds very hard to prove which would explain why we aren't hearing much about it...
 
I can tell you exactly why you aren't hearing anything.......Once the KJ at each venue has been cleared the charges are also dropped against the venue, And If the KJ settled, then the charges are dropped against the venue as long as the venue agrees to join the KIAA and Not hire any more illegal hosts in the future
 
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