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Kurt you said it wasnt about deleting the pirates but only your mission stated? What is it? Did you state the truth from the beginning or suddenly shifting gears?
 
Sound Choice said:
we just spent a tremendous amount of time and money developing a product which has use for both legal "shifters" and pirates.....
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Awesome.

You spent time and money which has use for both Legal shifters AND PIRATES?

I don't know what a "legal" shifter is, especially since you just posted-twice- on page 20- that there's no such thing, even citing the fact that even I understood that- which is true.

On the other hand, I guess there is something to be said for an equal opportunity developer...:sqwink:
 
Sound Choice said:
1) Keep in mind that I've been at this forever, and my disc library includes a whole bunch of many mfrs. products collected over the years.

2) As for your "Challenge" of getting rid of pirates in NJ, we don't owe you anything nor do we have to prove anything to you. But even though you failed my counter to your challenge regarding our song licenses, I will give you another chance and offer you a "counter" challenge in regards to getting rid of pirates.

For every ten pirates we either get rid of or make pay a higher cost to be in business, YOU have to do the same with one. So one for every ten that we get rid of or make pay - only 10%! That should be doable for you, since you have all the answers.

We'll make this a long term challenge since we want you to have every possibility to identify the "pirate" properly so you do not falsely accuse anyone. So, six months from August 1, 2010, we'll do the tally. Are you going to accept this or were you just shooting of your mouth again?

3) And by the way, suing someone for IP infringement has nothing to do with "restraint of trade" since no one has a right to "trade" by illegally infringing IP rights.
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1) I have no idea why this was posted at the beginning of your reply. What does my having a lot of mfrs. discs have to do with this???:sqerr:

2) I assume you are joking.

A- I just stated twice that I have no answer or method of getting rid of pirates- I'm in the same boat as you. You did read the posts before replying, right?

B- I would love to get rid of pirates but have no one to report them to. Certainly not you. Not only ineffective, but per your own post on this forum, you have no problem publishing the names of those who try to help you.
I won't start litigation on my own because I am in the Karaoke business- it's YOU who are in the litigation business.

Do your own work. I issued a challenged based on what you claim your are doing. You amended the challenge based on what I have no experience in. I'm terrific in doing what I DO have experience in- are YOU?

I'll be away from July 31st to Aug 6th, but will await and impact report from your entry into this market.

3) True as stated by you, but that's not all you're doing. Either way, I really was trying to be helpful, though you don't believe it. Do as you will.
 
KjAthena said:
Again I will post that we do agree with SC and their actions and will continue to do so for any other manus that attack the pirates. I have been pretty chewed up because of my posts stating this and exspect more of the same but PIRACY is STEALING and I take it personally. We are anxiously awiating our KIAA and SafeHarbor cards and will display them proudly.
It seems to me that most of the complaining about SC and their attacks against piracy have come from people who are blowing smoke instead of facing up to the real issues. In a perfect world the Karaoke industry would have other options available to fight piracy....unfortunatly we do not live in a perfect world.
Ok I am off my soap box again
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I don't take piracy personally - because, I don't manufacture discs. I look after my own interests which are largely separate from any manufacturer.

One of my interests is managing liability. Piracy is a liability so nix that idea.

Another liability is the actions of other companies that would make thier problem into my problem. Enter Soundchoice and my opposition to thier lawsuit campaigns.

Piracy is of little concern to me and my business. I don't need it, and I'm not threatened by the reality of this climate that gives rise to it. Piracy offers no real financial incentive to anyone with a meaningful business acumen. Music and karaoke are very cheap products and as Joe has pointed out - it only takes a small collection to be successful.

I resent SC and others who would argue that disinterest in their interests proves something nefarious about my operations. This is a concern to me and it deserves a hard and forceful rebuttal.

I get that you're happy with your audit. Simply put - I just don't want to be you. I'm sorry you seem to take that personally
 
it is all of you who have format/media shifted ALREADY OR outright stolen content that have caused the problems being discussed.
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Who's problem is that?

It is certainly not mine. So, while I sympathize with the issues you and your product face - I am not willing to divert my attention from my own best interest to particpate in solving your issues.

No to your audit.
No to your lawsuit.
No to your product.

and no, that doesn't make me a pirate no matter how many times you make the accussations.
 
Proformance said:
I don't take piracy personally - because, I don't manufcature discs. I look after my own interests which are largely separate from any manufacturer.

One of my interests is managing liability. Piracy is a liability so nix that idea.

Another liability is the actions of other companies that would make thier problem into my problem. Enter Soundchoice and my opposition to thier lawsuit campaigns.

Piracy is of little concern to me and my business. I don't need it, and I'm not threatened by the reality of this climate that gives rise to it. Piracy offers no real financial incentive to anyone with a meaningful business acumen. Music and karaoke are very cheap products and as Joe has pointed out - it only takes a small collection to be successful.

I resent SC and others who would argue that disinterest in their interests proves something nefarious about my operations. This is a concern to me and it deserves a hard and forceful rebuttal.

I get that you're happy with your audit. Simply put - I just don't want to be you. I'm sorry you seem to take that personally
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Bob,

I understand everything you just posted and it is clear, piracy is no skin off your nose, you don't care about piracy because it does affect you or your business model, you don't run karaoke shows!

So what I really don't understand is why are you even in these discussions?

Are you in it just to throw sticks at those of us who are affected by it be it those who own libraries or the pirates who don't?

If you have no dog in this fight then why are you holding a leash?

The same can be said for Jon, Rick and a couple of others as well even including Joe who has stated that pirates do not affect his business!

So why are any of you in these discussions other than to bash Sound Choice and those who support their actions?

Unless the only reason you are here is to support the actions of the pirates! Because that is exactly what it looks like to many of us!

If you don't want the Gem series then don't make that purchase, there is no need to bash it!

If you don't want to use any Sound Choice product then don't, if you think that DK and Supercore are better products than Sound Choice then use them!

If you think Sound Choices efforts to force pirates to become legal or get out isn't going to work then wait and see if it fails there is no need to bash it as what they are doing is being done in the legal arena and a judge or jury will decide the outcome not anyone of us! Each one of you can beat your chest after Sound Choice closes it's doors! The company is in business just as I am, a large portion of my income comes from karaoke and personally I would like to see it survive as an industry, since Sound Choice is the largest portion of my library and the most often requested by my singers I personally would rather they survive instead of closing up shop! I would also say that since Sound Choice is also the version most used by the pirates that they would also like to see them continue in the business! Joe made a point about the economy affecting karaoke and he is correct and it is affecting ALL of the industry not just KJs but ALL of the manus as well, I am going to support those manus who make an effort to survive!
 
Thunder said:
Bob,

I understand everything you just posted and it is clear, piracy is no skin off your nose, you don't care about piracy because it does affect you or your business model, you don't run karaoke shows!

So what I really don't understand is why are you even in these discussions?

Are you in it just to throw sticks at those of us who are affected by it be it those who own libraries or the pirates who don't?

If you have no dog in this fight then why are you holding a leash?

The same can be said for Jon, Rick and a couple of others as well even including Joe who has stated that pirates do not affect his business!

So why are any of you in these discussions other than to bash Sound Choice and those who support their actions?

Unless the only reason you are here is to support the actions of the pirates!
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Whether or not you perceive that he has no "dog in the fight" I believe that Proformance is just as welcome as anyone else here. Would you prefer discussion by no one other and SC supporters? Or perhaps a discussion by no one other than those that don't support SC?

It would be pretty boring either way.
 
I have a dog in this fight -- the decision on whether I enable karaoke in an upcoming version of my software...

If the market remains hostile, I might not -- if it becomes hospitable, I might... So, since that would be an upsell for me, it has to do with potential future income :)
 
Whether they like it or not they are definitely helping the pirates arguments, I doubt any of them are pirates but they are certainly helping pirates in these discussions
 
What I find difficult and sad is the backlash that can be associated with trying to do something about the piracy. I have been laughed at for my letter writing/email campaign of 10 years to the karaoke producers.

When I have taken what I have learned about the current mess and try to educate other people they just roll their eyes and some have even basically told me to shut up.

There is one person in our area who is computer based. He has been in the karaoke industry for over 20 years. He is extremely well respected, has a HUGE following. In terms of discs, I have been to his house and his basement is stuffed to the ceiling with original cdg discs. I know for a fact he has both original foundations, bricks and more soundchoice discs than I had the patience to count.

So for all his 'old' music I fully believe he is 100% 1:1.

HOWEVER, I am not so sure about the new music he seems to get every month. He claims to be part of some 'subcription' download service and truly believes that it is legal in Canada, despite my efforts to tell him otherwise.

If I were to report him to any authority or producer of karaoke and someone found out about it, I can GAURUNTEE you that my name would be mud. I wouldn't be able to get a karaoke gig within a 100 mile radius and even if I did manage it somehow, NO ONE would come to support me. The very first thing I would probably be accused of is trying to force him out of business so I could "steal" his gigs.

-James
 
Rick,

You have already stated in several post that you have no interest in producing a karaoke player, you have suddenly changed your mind? While you have a great DJ player and I love it! The Karaoke field is already covered up with computer player systems that are decent to excellent. While I don't see a problem with having one more and your's would be very welcome, I don't see where the issue of Sound Choice will affect the legal use of your system! Granted if a lot of pirates leave the field or don't get into it then I can see where that could affect your wanting to even bother with producing a player!
 
Thunder said:
Rick,

You have already stated in several post that you have no interest in producing a karaoke player, you have suddenly changed your mind? While you have a great DJ player and I love it! The Karaoke field is already covered up with computer player systems that are decent to excellent. While I don't see a problem with having one more and your's would be very welcome, I don't see where the issue of Sound Choice will affect the legal use of your system! Granted if a lot of pirates leave the field or don't get into it then I can see where that could affect your wanting to even bother with producing a player!
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Karaoke is already partially built into my software -- I just haven't enabled it, like other things for tempo, key change, et. al. What I enable in releases, depends on a number of variables, such as support costs, market pricing, maturity of the feature, etc.


But there are other issues as well...

SC seems to be sue happy, and desperate for cash flow -- who's to say they won't go after software producers, who's software can play their stuff, and display their trademarks...?

Desperate people, do desperate things...

Recall in another thread you mentioned being aware of your surroundings, so you don't get involved in bad situations. That's why I'm here poking around... ;) :)
 
Chip,

Bob stated that his position in Sound Choice is "disinterest" he has also stated that he does not run karaoke "shows" that he only uses it as an add on to Private events "and very seldom"!

He also states that because of his position on the lawsuits that Sound Choice is implying that he runs a nefarious operation!

Well we come back to his disinterest in the interest of Sound Choice, he either has an interest in it or he doesn't!

Again, a large portion of my income is based in karaoke I don't have a "day job" my living is made from DJ and KJ work! I have a vested interest in seeing karaoke survive as an industry, I support the efforts of the music industry in going after pirates and I support those in the karaoke industry going after pirates simply because it is in my interest!
 
SoftJock Rick said:
I have a dog in this fight -- the decision on whether I enable karaoke in an upcoming version of my software...
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Don't waste your time....

There are better programs out there IMHO....
 
Loneavenger said:
Whether they like it or not they are definitely helping the pirates arguments, I doubt any of them are pirates but they are certainly helping pirates in these discussions
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How? It's not a public forum (anymore.)
 
SoftJock Rick said:
Karaoke is already partially built into my software -- I just haven't enabled it, like other things for tempo, key change, et. al. What I enable in releases, depends on a number of variables, such as support costs, market pricing, maturity of the feature, etc.


But there are other issues as well...

SC seems to be sue happy, and desperate for cash flow -- who's to say they won't go after software producers, who's software can play their stuff, and display their trademarks...?

Desperate people, do desperate things...

Recall in another thread you mentioned being aware of your surroundings, so you don't get involved in bad situations. That's why I'm here poking around... ;) :)
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Rick,

Has the RIAA filed suit against any of the computer player producers? Is there a reason why they haven't?

Have you bothered to ask Sound Choice what their position is on Computer players for karaoke?

I will grant you the poking around but there is a difference between poking around and poking at! I have yet to see you ask one time about the issue you just raised here:

SC seems to be sue happy, and desperate for cash flow -- who's to say they won't go after software producers, who's software can play their stuff, and display their trademarks...?
Click to expand...

If this is the issue that concerns you then why not raise it with Sound Choice instead of bashing their efforts in matters unrelated to your concerns!
 
Jon Tuck said:
I have to give Schlepp....
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Wasn't Joker's set to private due to people doing a bunch of name calling?

Now here is some real hypocrisy when Forum Staff are guilty of doing it as well....

I only see one other "Private" forum on the whole ODJT site out of many.

Whatever....
 
Thunder said:
If this is the issue that concerns you then why not raise it with Sound Choice instead of bashing their efforts in matters unrelated to your concerns!
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Because I don't trust them, given what I've read/seen so far.
 
c. staley said:
How? It's not a public forum (anymore.)
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Good Point Chip! So by the same token they are no longer hurting Sound Choice anymore either, so there really isn't any need to continue is there?
 
c. staley said:
How? It's not a public forum (anymore.)
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Chip,

If you were a pirate and openly admitted you were, then your position on Sound choice and all of the things said would still apply. Although you are assumedly arguing from a legal standpoint it just happens to be the same as the pirates standpoint. Therefore, that's why i said like it or not , you are helping to argue for the pirates
 
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