Officially Certified

[rumbolt]

I see, so now it's "hope" and "faith?" We should endorse the program because "I've done it" and "I promise I'm a good person?"

This is not a religious expereince. Each and every day it becomes even more childish: the sorry sight of a few desperate KJs sucking on a dry pacifier. How could you be anything other than insulted when you work so hard at demeaning yourselves?

The merits of an idea have to stand on their own. It matters not who endorses it or from where it came. Too many questions left unanswered, so many points ignored, and the best argument being offered is let's "hope" and "try it." No, thank you.

Are you kidding me that is all you have?

 

[Guest]

I would like to answer that question from my prospective if that's ok with you?

It is not a simple yes or no because the multible conditions of the question.

Not being certified does not make you a pirate but the use of the computer is a tool that could be used by certified and non-certified kjs alike. See the caveat you created in the way that question was phrased.

In the future, I think the time will come after a few more suits against pirate operations (venues and/or kjs) have taken place, and venues and kj alike have accepted to settle and then the value of having our karaoke libraries verified as legal will be a requirement from prospective venues so they will not be possibly drawn into a court. Of course there will be the venues that really could care less and will continue to do business as usual but that will be a reduced number of those around anyway.

Let me ask you a question,

This should be a yes or no answer.

In the future, after all the dust settles and suit were filed and cases settled and pirate kjs were exposed for who they are and how they operated outside the (copyright) law. If, the only way a venue you wanted to work for required you to have your library verified so they could stay out of court, would you get your library certified?

This is just wishful thinking (you do in fact use the phrase "I think").

Certification of your library by the manufacturer amounts to nothing more than a "prooof of purchase" seal that could just as easily be placed on the side of the box.

"Certified" when used in a professional capacity should mean something. When you press forward with worthless "certifications" it serves only to undermine both your credibility and professional capacity.

Can you not see how transparent your position is? You won't commit with a simple yes or no to Joe's question but, you demand it for questions of your own. If your argument only survives where there are two distinct sets of rules - then the problem rests with your argument.

 

[Guest]

Are you kidding me that is all you have?

That's my line ....and soon the likely reaction of many a venue.

...and yes, that's all it boils down to - a simple "proof of purchase" and your assertion that you're a good person.
It is a sad joke to label that with a word like "certified."

 

[rumbolt]

This is just wishful thinking (you do in fact use the phrase "I think").

Certification of your library by the manufacturer amounts to nothing more than a "prooof of purchase" seal that could just as easily be placed on the side of the box.

"Certified" when used in a professional capacity should mean something. When you press forward with worthless "certifications" it serves only to undermine both your credibility and professional capacity.

Can you not see how transparent your position is? You won't commit with a simple yes or no to Joe's question but, you demand it for questions of your own. If your argument only survives where there are two distinct sets of rules - then the problem rests with your argument.

That's your opinion, and again you are unable to give a yes or no answer as you so commanded from Thunder. My use of the word "think" is could be replaced with the word conjecture, is that better?

OK Pro,

Pop Quiz

What will you do if the certification process that the manus set up becomes the industry standard with venues (ok, lets say it is pie in the sky, but then let's say it does happen for argument sake) and that becomes one of the requirements and everything being equal?

 

[c. staley]

Pop Quiz

What will you do if the certification process that the manus set up becomes the industry standard with venues (ok, lets say it is pie in the sky, but then let's say it does happen for argument sake) and that becomes one of the requirements and everything being equal?

My easy answer is to sue the manufacturers on a number of different charges beginning with restraint of trade however, this is a really big "what if."

I'll guarantee you the manufacturers won't want to see that, but more importantly, the "industry" you are so ingrained in will be gone by that time and it will be nothing more than a "home sport."

 

[rumbolt]

My easy answer is to sue the manufacturers on a number of different charges beginning with restraint of trade however, this is a really big "what if."

I'll guarantee you the manufacturers won't want to see that, but more importantly, the "industry" you are so ingrained in will be gone by that time and it will be nothing more than a "home sport."

Suppose it become regulated by the local gov as part of business as with the health inspection and liquor licencing and other regulators of business.

I guess than I need to sue my local GM, Ford or Chrysler dealer since they only hire ASC "certified" techs. Is than not restrant of trade since that is an industry standard?

 

[Big Joe]

I would like to answer that question from my prospective if that's ok with you?

It is not a simple yes or no because the multible conditions of the question.

Not being certified does not make you a pirate but the use of the computer is a tool that could be used by certified and non-certified kjs alike. See the caveat you created in the way that question was phrased.

This is not a trick question. There are no multiple conditions. Today, in the real world, I have no manufacturer certifications. Am I a pirate when I use a computer for my shows?

In the future, I think the time will come after a few more suits against pirate operations (venues and/or kjs) have taken place, and venues and kj alike have accepted to settle and then the value of having our karaoke libraries verified as legal will be a requirement from prospective venues so they will not be possibly drawn into a court. Of course there will be the venues that really could care less and will continue to do business as usual but that will be a reduced number of those around anyway.

Let me ask you a question,

This should be a yes or no answer.

In the future, after all the dust settles and suit were filed and cases settled and pirate kjs were exposed for who they are and how they operated outside the (copyright) law. If, the only way a venue you wanted to work for required you to have your library verified so they could stay out of court, would you get your library certified?

No. I could easily just use my discs. Or, better yet, I could just wait for about a year for every manufacturer dumb enough to persue such a foolish endeavour against thier customers to all go out of business due to a lack of sales. Or do the multiple conditions in your question also assume that the majority of KJ's nationwide will bend over in unison and bow to a vendors every whim???

 

[Big Joe]

Suppose it become regulated by the local gov as part of business as with the health inspection and liquor licencing and other regulators of business.

As long as we're all [well, some of us are] in the mood to answer questions, I've got one. What cash-strapped, already over-worked and under-manned local govt. agency do you expect to step in and police karaoke, especially when the manus aren't willing to put thier money where thier mouth's are and do it for themselves?

I guess than I need to sue my local GM, Ford or Chrysler dealer since they only hire ASC "certified" techs. Is than not restrant of trade since that is an industry standard?

People's actual lives are on the line when you repair thier vehicles. No one forces them to hire certified techs, at least not in the way you would force venue owners to hire only certified KJ's. Now, if you can show me loss of life that could have been prevented by the presence of a certified KJ, I will of course reconsider my position.

 

[KjAthena]

all I can say is I know the sh*t is going to hit the fan here when the first lawsuits hit the bars. We have been trying to warn them but so many really think they have nothing to worry about. Yes fewer bars will ahve karaoke but the ones that do will pay more,hire legit kj's, and have more business.

 

[Big Joe]

all I can say is I know the sh*t is going to hit the fan here when the first lawsuits hit the bars. We have been trying to warn them but so many really think they have nothing to worry about. Yes fewer bars will ahve karaoke but the ones that do will pay more,hire legit kj's, and have more business.

Maybe, maybe not. With the abundance of cheap, used, professional audio equipment that will inevitably be available in your scenario, what's gonna stop the influx of people that can afford to spend a few thousand $$$ for some discs to become your new competition and force prices down again?

 

[Guest]

Pop Quiz

What will you do if the certification process that the manus set up becomes the industry standard with venues (ok, lets say it is pie in the sky, but then let's say it does happen for argument sake) and that becomes one of the requirements and everything being equal?

It is not even possible, and you should already know why so, I won't endeavior to explain U.S. Trade Law. There will always be another supplier from whom a KJ or venue can obtain material without needing any such "certificate."

The best you can achieve is a marketing advantage where people prefer to buy from a given manufacturer or group of manufacturers - which is exactly what the combination of audits and law suit threats is all about.

 

[KjAthena]

Maybe, maybe not. With the abundance of cheap, used, professional audio equipment that will inevitably be available in your scenario, what's gonna stop the influx of people that can afford to spend a few thousand $$$ for some discs to become your new competition and force prices down again?

we have had the cheap used audio equipment available here for quite some time....I have no problem with those that have a few thousand for disc trying to come and compete because I know my library and branding will place me levels above those people....some will give up and others will bulid and become my competittors bring it on....at least I will be ccompeting on a level feild...not with a theif that has every song ever made or will dounload it during the show:rolleyespill:

 

[Guest]

Suppose it become regulated by the local gov as part of business as with the health inspection and liquor licencing and other regulators of business.

It won't. The government does not have the authority to tell you where or how to acquire karaoke tracks. (You must have us confused with the former Soviet Union.)

There is already legal processes in place to deal with everything you are complaining about. I can assure you the rest of the nation, and especially law enforcement, does not view karaoke with the same sense of civic crisis that you do.

I guess than I need to sue my local GM, Ford or Chrysler dealer since they only hire ASC "certified" techs. Is than not restrant of trade since that is an industry standard?

Again, this is just ignorance of Trade Law. There is nothing that prevents you from getting your car fixed at a shop with uncertified mehanics, or mechanics certified by someone else. Neither is there any restirction on other auto-dealers who choose to use mechanics with a different certification (Toyota, Honda) or no such certification. It's just a marketing point and a way to present your credentials.

It should also be obvious to you that the ASC certification involves more than having your tools counted. The mechanics are educated, trained, and tested to a performance standard as well as an ethical creed. It is not regulation - it is a performance and service standard presented for the purpose of competitive marketing.

You're karaoke certificate is a "proof of purchase" and nothing more. You are trying to "certify" that which is already assumed and taken for granted. Should you really expect people to be impressed by something so remedial and obvious?

 

[Thunder Hag]

Whats to stop someone from being a first time customer to CB and buying only $200 doing an audit and becoming certified? THEN continuing to use the pirate library with a neat little certificate?

 

[Guest]

I know my library and branding will place me levels above those people....some will give up and others will bulid and become my competittors bring it on....at least I will be ccompeting on a level feild...not with a theif that has every song ever made or will dounload it during the show:rolleyespill:

Could you please explain the difference? Why does your branding work against one competitor but, not the other?

 

[c. staley]

Suppose it become regulated by the local gov as part of business as with the health inspection and liquor licencing and other regulators of business.

I guess than I need to sue my local GM, Ford or Chrysler dealer since they only hire ASC "certified" techs. Is than not restrant of trade since that is an industry standard?

Here the difference:

ASC "Certified" techs have to go through a training course and pass that testing - not just buy a bunch of socket wrenches. Do you want someone working on your car who hasn't been through any training at all but bought the wrenches and has a certificate to prove that he bought it?

Karaoke hosts only need to buy a disc... My dog owns several karaoke discs... I should be able to get this dog a certificate as well.

 

[KjAthena]

Whats to stop someone from being a first time customer to CB and buying only $200 doing an audit and becoming certified? THEN continuing to use the pirate library with a neat little certificate?

only stupidity...then they could sue you for breach of contract in addition to the other charges when you are caught. I think you may underetimate the manus willingness to keep coming back and checking.

 

[c. staley]

only stupidity...then they could sue you for breach of contract in addition to the other charges when you are caught. I think you may underetimate the manus willingness to keep coming back and checking.

"Breach of contract?"

Did you have to sign a contract to be "certified?" (now that would be funny!)

Did you pay a fee too?

:laughpill:

 

[Thunder Hag]

only stupidity...then they could sue you for breach of contract in addition to the other charges when you are caught. I think you may underetimate the manus willingness to keep coming back and checking.

Nope I never doubted the willingness to keep their nose in someones affairs. I just wanted see if that was the answer and it was.

So an audit, and a certificate allows them to drop by and audit me at their will. Yeah No thanks.

Sounds alot like routine traffic stops to me, inconvenient to 99% of us, just to catch one. Allowing someone to search me for their pleasure, and giving up my rights aren't happening.

When people start allowing companies and corporations etc to tell them how to live and by which laws to abide by then I will simply find something else to do. .
Its people like this who give away their rights a little each day that make me sick. So and so hurt my feelings we need a law, so and so did this, create a law, so and so business lost profit this year make a law. Really?

Why are so many people so eager to give up what they claim to love?

I don't understand the mindset here. I truly don't, someone wanna help me understand why I should want to let them audit me? Someone want to explain to me a real benefit other than a perceived one? Someone want to explain these things using logic instead of emotion?

 

[KjAthena]

If you want to see and understand the process ask for an audit.....I agreed at my audit we agreed not to pirate music and to be open to future audits upon request...in writting. Sounds like a contract to me and my Attny:laughpill: