The 411 on origin of SC letters of intent

[Sound Choice]

The fact that hosts are choosing to delete SC content from their libraries is not based on a question of quality. I don't recall the quality of their product to be in question. But SC is far from the only choice when it come to quality. Even at the "cheerleader" party at SC Studios, some of their most die hard supporters want to sing to other brands.

So, if hosts have all the original legal discs to support a 1:1 media shift, why would they delete SC content from their libraries? When Chartbusters or Stellar begin to take similar actions, are these same hosts all of a sudden going to decide they have a some altruistic problem with those manufacturers also? Or is it simply that most of their content is pirated material and they are trying to hide the fact that they ever had illegal material by deleting it ahead of any investigation?

Just rhetorical questions.

 

[Sound Choice]

The crux of the matter right there. As in any business, anything that causes problems and/or keeps a business from running smoothly is simply excluded.

I'm manufacturer disc based, and don't HAVE to exclude anything. However, I, and several others in my area, are deleting SC simply because enough negative publicity has been generated by SC that has reached the venues' ears that any association with the name cannot be counted as a positive for the business in this area at this time.

The fact is, I don't even have to worry about reprinting books until my normal end-of-year time. I just don't get many requests for them. I admit that I'm not fond of the idea of replacing the last few simply because these few DO have some of the best versions of what's on them, in my opinion, of course. However, they WILL be replaced when I find versions close enough.

Joe, pretend this is not Kurt asking these questions. :rolleyespill:

I am curious from an "outsider" standpoint (if you could ever believe me to be that objective). Isn't this sort of like cutting your nose off to spite your face? Do you think that your venue(s) are going to change the way they consider your or your show if you delete your few SC songs? As in "whew, thanks Joe, I was worried Sound Choice would come snooping around and cause me problems, even though you are disc based".

And I am really surprised that the venues are even that aware of our lawsuits(when so many KJs in parts of the country are unaware of our actions). Although you claimed a long time ago that the venues were worried about negative publicity, we only recently began making hosts aware that we had investigated them in the NJ area. And even then you said we missed sooo many of them in your area that we couldn't even make a dent in the problem. And what "negative publicity" are they worried about: "Karaoke producers sue hosts for stealing music; venues named as contributory infringers"? If a few bars got busted for selling to underage drinkers, would they quit selling booze or would they tighten up their ID checking procedures? THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE TO DO TO AVOID problems. Make sure their suppliers are legal.

If a venue owner were thinking clearly, he might have this train of thought instead: "Wow, I am glad that someone is doing something to stem the oversaturation of karaoke bars in my area. With all the new bars popping up offering karaoke, I notice fewer and fewer singers for OUR karaoke nights and my receipts going down. I am either going to have to ask my host to take a cut in pay or go find another host to do it cheaper. Or just drop it all together. I heard my host complaining about that new guy down the street just starting in business with a ton of songs he got for nothing, but what can I do about it? I wish SOMEONE would do something about all these guys popping up like that!! "

I do notice that you left yourself some "wiggle room" when you wrote "any association with the name cannot be counted as a positive for the business in this area at this time." So, when the hosts and venues see that positive things are happening, are they going to blow in the wind and change their "convictions"? Where is the "leadership" in your area? Why don't YOU and the venues decide to become a part of the solution instead of trying to hide from the piracy issue or pretend it doesn't exist - because they benefit from it? Only short term, maybe.

 

[Diafel]

The thing to remember is that it wasn't the SC discs. Through those 12 years that place was often the ONLY place that had karaoke for miles around. Add to that the hostess is a great person and you can see why it has lasted.
It isn't the brand of discs, trust me. The bar has refused to update their library for years, probably going on 10 years, actually. The way they "update" is by getting their customers to buy their own discs, which of course, they won't share with others. So much for new music!
Nor is it the present situation that bar is in. It has actually gone rather downhill and the ONLY reason most people go there now is for the two reasons I cited above.
They have the only karaoke show on the weekends for miles around and the same great hostess. If she leaves, that place will die. No amount of SC discs will save it, despite what it once was.

 

[Guest]

The thing to remember is that it wasn't the SC discs. Through those 12 years that place was often the ONLY place that had karaoke for miles around. Add to that the hostess is a great person and you can see why it has lasted.
It isn't the brand of discs, trust me. The bar has refused to update their library for years, probably going on 10 years, actually. The way they "update" is by getting their customers to buy their own discs, which of course, they won't share with others. So much for new music!
Nor is it the present situation that bar is in. It has actually gone rather downhill and the ONLY reason most people go there now is for the two reasons I cited above.
They have the only karaoke show on the weekends for miles around and the same great hostess. If she leaves, that place will die. No amount of SC discs will save it, despite what it once was.

So are you saying that another host with a decent (updated) library would not be able to keep or expand the bars business?

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Prehaps all of you folks that are taking all of your SC disks out of your books, could make us SC users a deal on your used disks.

Sounds like a god idea, but I never had enough in the first place to make it worthwhile... Had 25 or 30 to start with, and am down to around 10- out of 1500 or so discs that I normally carry.

 

[c. staley]

So, if hosts have all the original legal discs to support a 1:1 media shift, why would they delete SC content from their libraries?

Because some of them are not stupid. You are suing for trademark infringement, for copying the trademark to a hard disc.... NOT for a " 1:1 media shift". You can try the verbal nutshell game.... Skid has all the discs to support a 1:1 and you still threatened to sue didn't you? Yep....

When Chartbusters or Stellar begin to take similar actions, are these same hosts all of a sudden going to decide they have a some altruistic problem with those manufacturers also?

There's a BIG difference between them and SC... they actually still make music and sell discs. And I'm sure that a majority of KJ's have their brands over yours in terms of quantity... (Just a rhetorical answer... IMHO.)

Or is it simply that most of their content is pirated material and they are trying to hide the fact that they ever had illegal material by deleting it ahead of any investigation?
Just rhetorical questions.

I'm sure that there are some.... and the more you continue to attempt to "sue your way back to riches," it is MY OPINION that it will and has already begun to backfire. While you sincerely believe that you're "educating" the venue owners to your "plight of dishonest pirates," many of the venue owners don't want your brand around.... at all. They don't care whether it's a disc, cassette tape or a hard drive. They're all finding out that if the logo shows up on a screen, SC has no problem suing for it and many know about your "mistakes" and don't want to be the next one.

It's a minuscule amputation of a single brand to avoid any unnecessary, time consuming and expensive problems later. If other mfgs. decide to do the same and join your crusade of sorts, the next step is that venue owners will simply stop karaoke altogether. (Not like you really give a squat, IMHO, you really don't.)

Rather than suing the world, why not just get all the manufacturers (a handful really) together to come up with a format that is proprietary? Wouldn't it be cheaper, simpler, easier and stop piracy from now on dead in it's tracks? I'm sure it would. You could still go on suing the world for past regressions and no one would get your new stuff.... (provided you ever start making any).

Apparently, (and in my opinion) it's easier and more profitable for you to sue the world than it is to get a small group of manufacturers to agree to anything. You tried that once... and we know how far that went...

 

[Guest]

Sounds like a god idea, but I never had enough in the first place to make it worthwhile... Had 25 or 30 to start with, and am down to around 10- out of 1500 or so discs that I normally carry.

Joe,

List the disc you have left and the condition several of us may be interested in buying them if they aren't already in our systems!

 

[JoeChartreuse]

So, if hosts have all the original legal discs to support a 1:1 media shift, why would they delete SC content from their libraries? When Chartbusters or Stellar begin to take similar actions, are these same hosts all of a sudden going to decide they have a some altruistic problem with those manufacturers also? Or is it simply that most of their content is pirated material and they are trying to hide the fact that they ever had illegal material by deleting it ahead of any investigation?

Just rhetorical questions.

That would, of course, depend on whether these companies handle their "investigations" better thn SC has. My guess is that they have sat and watched SC's efforts, noted the mistakes and lacks, and IF they decide to go down similar paths, they will do so with the knowledge of SC's past errors and may well do a better, more fair, and certainly more informed job of it. IMHO, of course....:yespill:

 

[c. staley]

Prehaps all of you folks that are taking all of your SC disks out of your books, could make us SC users a deal on your used disks.

Missing a few from your artificial audit were you?

 

[Guest]

Chip, How many SC disc do you want to sell off, (if you have any):winkpill:

 

[JoeChartreuse]

The majority of the show's library is SC and the show has lasted 12 years? I may have to buy more SC.

Mimi, you know I love ya, but seriously.... Do you truly believe a host kept a show for 12 years because of a BRAND OF DISC? REALLY?.

OK, for informational purposes only- all other junk aside: If a host keeps a show for 12 years, he did so because he's that good. Personable, knowledgeable, and well trained. This guy would have done the same with SGB, and anything else. A true HOST, not just a "KJ".

He knows his crowd, keeps them close, keeps it light, helps in any way possible, and because of this has a following. PERIOD.

 

[c. staley]

Chip, How many SC disc do you want to sell off, (if you have any):winkpill:

I've sold off enough to KIAA members and certainly don't have any to sell to you (or Skid).

I'm so surprised that you and Skid are sniffing around for discs.... missing a few are you?

Go read the "making it personal" thread again and try to deny that you have not just done what you claim you don't do....

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Joe, pretend this is not Kurt asking these questions. :rolleyespill:

I am curious from an "outsider" standpoint (if you could ever believe me to be that objective). Isn't this sort of like cutting your nose off to spite your face?

ONE) Do you think that your venue(s) are going to change the way they consider your or your show if you delete your few SC songs? As in "whew, thanks Joe, I was worried Sound Choice would come snooping around and cause me problems, even though you are disc based".

And I am really surprised that the venues are even that aware of our lawsuits(when so many KJs in parts of the country are unaware of our actions). Although you claimed a long time ago that the venues were worried about negative publicity, we only recently began making hosts aware that we had investigated them in the NJ area.


TWO: And even then you said we missed sooo many of them in your area that we couldn't even make a dent in the problem. And what "negative publicity" are they worried about: "Karaoke producers sue hosts for stealing music; venues named as contributory infringers"?

If a few bars got busted for selling to underage drinkers, would they quit selling booze or would they tighten up their ID checking procedures? THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE TO DO TO AVOID problems. Make sure their suppliers are legal.

If a venue owner were thinking clearly, he might have this train of thought instead: "Wow, I am glad that someone is doing something to stem the oversaturation of karaoke bars in my area. With all the new bars popping up offering karaoke, I notice fewer and fewer singers for OUR karaoke nights and my receipts going down. I am either going to have to ask my host to take a cut in pay or go find another host to do it cheaper. Or just drop it all together. I heard my host complaining about that new guy down the street just starting in business with a ton of songs he got for nothing, but what can I do about it? I wish SOMEONE would do something about all these guys popping up like that!! "

THREE: I do notice that you left yourself some "wiggle room" when you wrote "any association with the name cannot be counted as a positive for the business in this area at this time." So, when the hosts and venues see that positive things are happening, are they going to blow in the wind and change their "convictions"? Where is the "leadership" in your area? Why don't YOU and the venues decide to become a part of the solution instead of trying to hide from the piracy issue or pretend it doesn't exist - because they benefit from it? Only short term, maybe.

I hope you can believe that I can be as objective as well:

ONE:SC: "Do you think that your venue(s) are going to change the way they consider your or your show if you delete your few SC songs? As in "whew, thanks Joe, I was worried Sound Choice would come snooping around and cause me problems, even though you are disc based".

Though I meant my statements to mean possible FUTURE venues, the answer is yes. One Venue, The Wagon Wheel has me on Wednesdays, but also has karaoke on Fridays with another host ( I was booked elsewhere). That host is PC based, but also ( though not SC dominant) has deleted their SC tracks, though I know they have the discs. This venue has heard of you, and wants no association that might make waves, cause delays, or possible lost shows due to you.

TWO:: Oh yes, you DID mis s"SOOOOO" many. Wondering how come, since they seem to wave red flags all over the place. Lack of "investigators"? ( said with a straight face....really).

THREE- SC:
"If a few bars got busted for selling to underage drinkers, would they quit selling booze or would they tighten up their ID checking procedures? THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE TO DO TO AVOID problems. Make sure their suppliers are legal. "

This has exactly WHAT to do with the other situation? Fully authorized law enforcement agencies handle these situations- which have absolutely no connection with whatever a completely non-authorized, unsanctioned karaoke producer does for themselves.

Bottom Line: NO business needs waves. Anything that causes waves, costs time, money, or effort above the return gotten for it is simply removed. That's not only for the venues, but for any Karaoke Host with any business acumen.

Does this mean I have to wear the body armor the WHOLE time if I come this November????:laughpill::confusedpill:


THREE- SC:
"I do notice that you left yourself some "wiggle room" when you wrote "any association with the name cannot be counted as a positive for the business in this area at this time." So, when the hosts and venues see that positive things are happening, are they going to blow in the wind and change their "convictions"? Where is the "leadership" in your area? "


I guess you could call it "wiggle Room", I just call it fact. AT THIS TIME means just that. It could be that as your self generated bad publicity fades, things MIGHT get better- though IF that happens, it may take awhile.. As for leadership...HUH? Do you think there is a "leader venue" that makes all the decisions in a given area? How come? Where else is there a Venue General?

KURT: A special side note: Whether you believe it or not, not a single post that I have ever made was of a personal nature. You may be a very charitable, giving, wonderful guy outside the parameters of this forum.

Absolutely NONE of my posts is based on any feelings toward you ( which don't exist since we have never met). This means that I don't have to "pretend that this post isn't from Kurt". I will swear on anything you wish that I bear you no PERSONAL ill will.

I hope that helps some...

 

[Diafel]

So are you saying that another host with a decent (updated) library would not be able to keep or expand the bars business?

You've all missed the point. The point is that SC is not a NECESSARY requirement for ANY gig. At least not around here. The singers just don't care WHAT brand they sing, as long as it's not utter crap.
And yes, I guess I am saying that the bar is probably too far gone as far as the atmosphere goes. The history of not updating certainly doesn't help any.
The only reason people go is mainly for the hostess and second, because it's the ONLY place on the weekend. If the hostess leaves, so will the custies, I suspect.

 

[Guest]

Perhaps you should give it a shot! You never can tell perhaps you can turn it around for karaoke as well as for the bar!

 

[possumdog]

Mimi, you know I love ya, but seriously.... Do you truly believe a host kept a show for 12 years because of a BRAND OF DISC? REALLY?. . PERIOD.

If you truly loved me, you would understand my sense of humor.

 

[Guest]

I hope you can believe that I can be as objective as well:

ONE:SC: "Do you think that your venue(s) are going to change the way they consider your or your show if you delete your few SC songs? As in "whew, thanks Joe, I was worried Sound Choice would come snooping around and cause me problems, even though you are disc based".

Though I meant my statements to mean possible FUTURE venues, the answer is yes. One Venue, The Wagon Wheel has me on Wednesdays, but also has karaoke on Fridays with another host ( I was booked elsewhere). That host is PC based, but also ( though not SC dominant) has deleted their SC tracks, though I know they have the discs. This venue has heard of you, and wants no association that might make waves, cause delays, or possible lost shows due to you.

TWO:: Oh yes, you DID mis s"SOOOOO" many. Wondering how come, since they seem to wave red flags all over the place. Lack of "investigators"? ( said with a straight face....really).

THREE- SC:
"If a few bars got busted for selling to underage drinkers, would they quit selling booze or would they tighten up their ID checking procedures? THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE TO DO TO AVOID problems. Make sure their suppliers are legal. "

This has exactly WHAT to do with the other situation? Fully authorized law enforcement agencies handle these situations- which have absolutely no connection with whatever a completely non-authorized, unsanctioned karaoke producer does for themselves.

Bottom Line: NO business needs waves. Anything that causes waves, costs time, money, or effort above the return gotten for it is simply removed. That's not only for the venues, but for any Karaoke Host with any business acumen.

Does this mean I have to wear the body armor the WHOLE time if I come this November????:laughpill::confusedpill:


THREE- SC:
"I do notice that you left yourself some "wiggle room" when you wrote "any association with the name cannot be counted as a positive for the business in this area at this time." So, when the hosts and venues see that positive things are happening, are they going to blow in the wind and change their "convictions"? Where is the "leadership" in your area? "


I guess you could call it "wiggle Room", I just call it fact. AT THIS TIME means just that. It could be that as your self generated bad publicity fades, things MIGHT get better- though IF that happens, it may take awhile.. As for leadership...HUH? Do you think there is a "leader venue" that makes all the decisions in a given area? How come? Where else is there a Venue General?

KURT: A special side note: Whether you believe it or not, not a single post that I have ever made was of a personal nature. You may be a very charitable, giving, wonderful guy outside the parameters of this forum.

Absolutely NONE of my posts is based on any feelings toward you ( which don't exist since we have never met). This means that I don't have to "pretend that this post isn't from Kurt". I will swear on anything you wish that I bear you no PERSONAL ill will.

I hope that helps some...

Joe aren't you contradicting yourself a little from a previous post where you said to the effect: the venues talk to each other and what one does the others follow, given that would there not have to be a "leader"?

No you wouldn't need body armor in Charlotte, this get together has nothing to do with piracy or the issues at hand here, it has everything to do with camaraderie and a good time! Just as with the old Jolt conventions the very people who argued the most on the forums were usually the ones who paled around the most at the meetings! You really need to stop refering to it as something that will be negative because if you do come it is going to leave you disappointed as there is going to be no one there to argue with!

I don't know how it works in New Jersey but here in Virginia if the ABC Board bust a venue for underage drinking before anything can be done they have to take the bartender or server and venue owner to court, where they have to prove to a judge or jury that the underage person was served alcohol by the venue having another patron "pass a drink to a minor" doesn't cut it! Here in Virginia if someone gives you a NFS check you still have to go to court and "prove" that the person charged is the one who passed the check to you and that you made every attempt to contact that person with notification that their check bounced! Even though kiting a check here is a felony and the Commonwealth actually prosecutes the offender. If someone damages your property here the "state" will prosecute them criminally but to recover monetary damages you still have to file in civil court and prosecute that yourself! The civil laws are set up so that a person or entity can protect their interest, what you are suggesting is to do away with the civil courts and have laws made to take everything to criminal court. While noble it isn't very practical!

 

[Big Joe]

So, if hosts have all the original legal discs to support a 1:1 media shift, why would they delete SC content from their libraries? When Chartbusters or Stellar begin to take similar actions, are these same hosts all of a sudden going to decide they have a some altruistic problem with those manufacturers also? Or is it simply that most of their content is pirated material and they are trying to hide the fact that they ever had illegal material by deleting it ahead of any investigation?

Just rhetorical questions.

Hosts have posted in the past, and are continuing to post the reasons they are no longer interested in playing SC product. You are free to continue on with your assumptions that 9 out of 10 of hosts are illegal.

 

[Guest]

I've sold off enough to KIAA members and certainly don't have any to sell to you (or Skid).

I'm so surprised that you and Skid are sniffing around for discs.... missing a few are you?

Go read the "making it personal" thread again and try to deny that you have not just done what you claim you don't do....

Always looking for a good deal Chip! Even though I have a pretty good collection of Sound Choice I don't have them all and there are some out there that are no longer available through Sound Choice! I be looking for those little buddy!

Sorry you are trying to make it all "personal"!:biggrinpill:

 

[Guest]

Hosts have posted in the past, and are continuing to post the reasons they are no longer interested in playing SC product. You are free to continue on with your assumptions that 9 out of 10 of hosts are illegal.

I don't think he is very far off the mark from what I have seen there haven't been any new legit host in 10 years and many of those that were legit multiplied their systems without any additional music investments! Which of course makes it a piracy issue!

As for those Host who choose to keep telling themselves that not having Sound Choice available won't affect their show, well you are correct as long as the never had a massive library of Sound Choice available to their patrons!
It took almost 5 years for the complaints to stop about me no longer having the Pioneer laser disc when I stopped using them, even though I had replaced them with a complete set of Pioneer CDGs! And yes it did affect my show to some extent!