The 411 on origin of SC letters of intent

[JoeChartreuse]

1) If using a computer is increasing a venue's exposure, are you suggesting that we all go back to disc players? Why not for safety and health issues, we toss away all the automobiles and go back to horses too?

2) A venue's compliance or non-compliance with ASCAP has nothing -absolutely nothing to do with a DJ or KJ. SC is not a federally recognized entity like ASCAP, BMI or SEASAC.

1) HHHHOOOOOLD EVERYTHIN' Babalooie! I disagree with the analogy.

I happen to prefer players, of course. But here's a thought for ya. If everyone went back to disc, how many 100K track pirate libraries do you figure would be around? One of the reasons so many switched to PC was because they were to lazy to carry one or 2 thousand discs- OR LESS. ( BTW, I carry about 1600 in one arm). Also, if all went back to discs, how many would sit and BURN 5000 discs. Also IF someone wanted to burn that many ( after buying that many blanks, a duplicater- PC too slow- and spending the many hours), would they GIVE them away? Pirates would have to PAY a LOT more for music.

Just as the access and lack of bulk and cost of MP3s made piracy soar, the reverse would also be true.



2) Agreed.

 

[Guest]

Joe,

1. It seems we once again reach a point of agreement!

How many 100K track pirate libraries do you figure would be around?

NONE ........... In fact it would automatically reduce the number of KJs and/or DJs by at least 80% in one day!

2. Here we disagree

(A) A venue's compliance or non-compliance with ASCAP has nothing -absolutely nothing to do with a DJ or KJ.

If a venue is not in compliance then they can not legally have either a DJ or a KJ, and the only bands that would be allowed would be those that play all their own material!

(B) SC is not a federally recognized entity like ASCAP, BMI or SEASAC.

Wrong again, Sound Choice is a federally recognized corporation just like ASCAP, BMI and SEASAC each one has the right to pursue through Civil Court actions to address violations of the Copyright laws, and they do! There is absolutely no difference between any of the four entities listed, none of them are federal agencies!

 

[JoeChartreuse]

What you're lacking is any evidence that the people you claim have been run out of town were in fact: "pirates." I'm not willing to rely on the hearsay of you or SC and there are already too many examples to the contrary to justify support for their effort.

Thank you, but their methods and practice speaks for itself.

This is an important point. I have YET to see any proof at all that any KJ anywhere.either shut down or raised pricing to more standard levels due to any efforts by SC ( Not a single court date yet after about 2 years, but let's not go there.)Shows close for a myriad of reasons: A falling out between owner and host, personal problems of the host (non-legal peoblems), a bad show with a diminishing showing, etc... The very few mentions here on this forum- even if they WERE SC induced ( and no one has shown that) - matched against THOUSANDS?

BTW- Kurt said he WAS coming agressively into NJ as of August first- so much so that he wanted to set a wager ( declined by me- not in my job description) in regard to how many KJs would be affected. This was in a posted reply to Rick, who lives in the area.

Now I read that SC hasn't entered NJ aggressively yet, and I shouldn't knock their efforts.

Well, which is it? I've heard of a FEW contacts ( only one confirmed).

I mean, if they want to make some money, the NY/NJ area is the El Dorado of locations to do it.......

 

[Guest]

This is an important point. I have YET to see any proof at all that any KJ anywhere.either shut down or raised pricing to more standard levels due to any efforts by SC ( Not a single court date yet after about 2 years, but let's not go there.)Shows close for a myriad of reasons: A falling out between owner and host, personal problems of the host (non-legal peoblems), a bad show with a diminishing showing, etc... The very few mentions here on this forum- even if they WERE SC induced ( and no one has shown that) - matched against THOUSANDS?

BTW- Kurt said he WAS coming agressively into NJ as of August first- so much so that he wanted to set a wager ( declined by me- not in my job description) in regard to how many KJs would be affected. This was in a posted reply to Rick, who lives in the area.

Now I read that SC hasn't entered NJ aggressively yet, and I shouldn't knock their efforts.

Well, which is it? I've heard of a FEW contacts ( only one confirmed).

I mean, if they want to make some money, the NY/NJ area is the El Dorado of locations to do it.......

Joe,

You need to go back and read Kurt's post again on the subject, if you are going to paraphrase what he said at least get it close.

He said he would begin investigating the NJ area soon (or as you said on August 1st), he also said he would tone it down and send out letters (private) before filing suit, since then he said they would be getting agressive (I assume because like you said everyone thought it was a joke), I bet that in a short period of time you will be seeing something on justia about SC and the KJs in your area!

Then and only then can you make a claim that it doesn't affect the pirates in your area!

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Joe,

You need to go back and read Kurt's post again on the subject, if you are going to paraphrase what he said at least get it close.

He said he would begin investigating the NJ area soon (or as you said on August 1st), he also said he would tone it down and send out letters (private) before filing suit, since then he said they would be getting agressive (I assume because like you said everyone thought it was a joke), I bet that in a short period of time you will be seeing something on justia about SC and the KJs in your area!

Then and only then can you make a claim that it doesn't affect the pirates in your area!

As previously stated by YOU, one supposedly has less chance of seeing anything on Justia, remember? Also, as previously stated, I have a pretty good information network in regard to what's going on in my business here.


We seem to disagree on interpretation, Steve. If he was willing and WANTING to lay out a wager based on his upcoming very aggressive entry into NJ, I would assume he meant it. However, you may be right, and it was just talk.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

2. Here we disagree

1) (A) A venue's compliance or non-compliance with ASCAP has nothing -absolutely nothing to do with a DJ or KJ.

If a venue is not in compliance then they can not legally have either a DJ or a KJ, and the only bands that would be allowed would be those that play all their own material!

2) SC is not a federally recognized entity like ASCAP, BMI or SEASAC.

Wrong again, Sound Choice is a federally recognized corporation just like ASCAP, BMI and SEASAC each one has the right to pursue through Civil Court actions to address violations of the Copyright laws, and they do! There is absolutely no difference between any of the four entities listed, none of them are federal agencies!

1) A missed point, here Steve. What the statement ( which wasn't mine, by the way) was saying was that a KJ/DJ is not legally responsible or liable for a venue's licensing, or lack thereof.


2) technicallycorrect, in the style in which you worded it., but incorrect in both reality and enforcement. SC has no standing or legal juice- the others do. What SC MIGHT be able to accomplish after years in court- MAYBE-, can be accomplished by the other entities in weeks, and easily.

TECHNICALLY, by similar reasoning, Thunder Karaoke is exactly the same as Sony Music, Hewlett Packard, and and Warner Brothers. Good luck proving that in real life.

 

[c. staley]

1) HHHHOOOOOLD EVERYTHIN' Babalooie! I disagree with the analogy.

I happen to prefer players, of course. But here's a thought for ya. If everyone went back to disc, how many 100K track pirate libraries do you figure would be around? One of the reasons so many switched to PC was because they were to lazy to carry one or 2 thousand discs- OR LESS. ( BTW, I carry about 1600 in one arm). Also, if all went back to discs, how many would sit and BURN 5000 discs. Also IF someone wanted to burn that many ( after buying that many blanks, a duplicater- PC too slow- and spending the many hours), would they GIVE them away? Pirates would have to PAY a LOT more for music.

Just as the access and lack of bulk and cost of MP3s made piracy soar, the reverse would also be true.

I'm not knocking using a player - the sound is hugely better but it's a bulkier set up and for the space of a player, I can carry my entire library and player (laptop) under one arm. However, most KJ's switch to avoid having to carry CD's around, accidents can happen - drop one, scratch one (on the data side), or just plain wear and tear not to mention theft. One former JOLTer accidently backed over an entire binder of discs with her truck while she was loading up.

And as far as multi-rigging disc-based pirates go, there is a company here that runs 17 shows a night... completely disc-based and most of them burns cleverly disguised in what looks like original jewel cases, so don't think it doesn't happen, it's been happening here for the last 10 years. SC knows who they are because they busted them in 1999... their punishment was to purchase $8,000 in discs... which they happily put on a credit card and went about their business.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Oh, I won't say that disc based pirates don't exist- but since the inception of easy to steal MP3s, it's exploded. A disc pirate still has to PAY for the cost of the disc, the time, the equipment, the distribution. Therefore they can't undercut like an MP3 pirate who has virtually NO costs at all.

Also, as you stated as well. a disc pirate has to CARRY THE DISCS. Please see my previous post on that.

 

[Guest]

One former JOLTer accidently backed over an entire binder of discs with her truck while she was loading up.

She could just as easily back-over the laptop.

....better make that standard 1:2

 

[Birdofsong]

A while back (about 7 years ago) an employee borrowed some discs for a short time and helped herself to making a complete copy of DK 1-99 without our knowledge. We found out when she used our van and accidentally left her binder with the discs in it. Anyone who would steal discs I don't think has any problem stealing them in any format they possibly can.

Birdofsong

 

[possumdog]

I agree that it is much easier these days to copy discs. It may cost a bit more than "free" but it is still a fraction of what buying them would be. It may take time but it isn't time that you would have to be stuck while it was all happening. We have heard of disc hosts sharing songs, etc. We have been asked ourselves and declined. We have also had singers come in asking us to make them their own custom of the songs they regularly sing because oher hosts do it. Guess it isn't on the level of instantly attaining 100,000 songs by buying a cheap hard drive but it does happen.

 

[Diafel]

I had a singer come in and ask me to burn him a disc. I was a little flabberghasted, but I didn't hesitate when I said,"No".
He was actually shocked and asked again, as if he thought perhaps I hadn't heard right. When I repeated my no he looked at me and said"No?"
"No".
He actually appeared to be a little angry!
But that was the end of that.
I personally didn't care for the guy to begin with, and that just clinched the deal. He always waits until it's my turn to sing and then approaches me when I start singing to try and talk to me.
I actually watched him waiting for me the other night. The whole time the singer before me was doing her song and I was OBVIOUSLY doing NOTHING, yet he waited. WTF?
I finally told him after I was done my song and got the next singer started that if he wants to ask me something, the time to do it is when I'm NOT singing or starting the next singer!
Sorry for the sidetrack, but that guy just gets under my skin.
What is it with people who think we OWE it to them to burn discs and commit piracy for them and get angry when we say no?
I felt like tossing that guy, but it's not my venue.

 

[Guest]

I had a singer come in and ask me to burn him a disc. I was a little flabberghasted, but I didn't hesitate when I said,"No".
He was actually shocked and asked again, as if he thought perhaps I hadn't heard right. When I repeated my no he looked at me and said"No?"
"No".
He actually appeared to be a little angry!
But that was the end of that.
I personally didn't care for the guy to begin with, and that just clinched the deal. He always waits until it's my turn to sing and then approaches me when I start singing to try and talk to me.
I actually watched him waiting for me the other night. The whole time the singer before me was doing her song and I was OBVIOUSLY doing NOTHING, yet he waited. WTF?
I finally told him after I was done my song and got the next singer started that if he wants to ask me something, the time to do it is when I'm NOT singing or starting the next singer!
Sorry for the sidetrack, but that guy just gets under my skin.
What is it with people who think we OWE it to them to burn discs and commit piracy for them and get angry when we say no?
I felt like tossing that guy, but it's not my venue.

That's a pretty common attitude among the general population; and in light of the now defunct RIAA campaign it suggests little or nothing will really change post SC litigation. Developments in this area don't seem to come from Litigation or Public Relations - it really is a technology issue.

The key to better busiess still seems to be minding your own business.

There are so many more important factors at play. The notion that your future somehow hinges on this one issue is like bailing the ocean rather than looking for opportunity on the beach. The tide comes in and the tide goes out and a few buckets from SC or others isn't going to increase the available land.

 

[Sound Choice]

The key to better busiess still seems to be minding your own business.

There are so many more important factors at play. The notion that your future somehow hinges on this one issue is like bailing the ocean rather than looking for opportunity on the beach. The tide comes in and the tide goes out and a few buckets from SC or others isn't going to increase the available land.

Yes, by all means just overlook the insideous spread of piracy and pretend that it doesn't affect you or is not an issue "worthy" of you doing anything about it - however little an action it might be.

"In Germany, [the Nazis] first came for the Communists, and I did not speak up, because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak up, because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak up, because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I did not speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me – and by that time no one was left to speak up." –Martin Niemoller

The industry was certainly headed in a direction where it would be irreparably harmed. A situation was being created where ALL the manufacturers could no longer support doing any new music and there was no one fighting to stop the spread of $300 hard drives loaded with everyone's back catalogs and most legitimate KJs were driven out of business leaving only the low quality $50-a-night KJs. One could forsee a situation where singers stopped coming because of poor quality shows with no new music and bars stopped using karaoke as a "draw" because EVERY bar had it and the "uniqueness" of it was gone.

Well, I am pleased to say that on behalf of my own company and the remaining loyal customers who have begged and pushed for something to be done for years, we finally "spoke up" and are doing something about the situation. EVen if it is not "perfect". And I recognize that there will be those who benefit from the positive actions of others who will never acknowledge the benefits they receive because of the risks of others. I recognize that that is human nature - there will always be parasites willing to live off the efforts of others while even criticising the same efforts they are benefitting from.

 

[c. staley]

Yes, by all means just overlook the insideous spread of piracy and pretend that it doesn't affect you or is not an issue "worthy" of you doing anything about it - however little an action it might be.

IN MY OPINION:
You are not out to stop the "insideous spread of piracy" by your own admission, you are out to make "customers out of pirates" so this is nothing magnanimous on your part, it's simply a newly identified "market for product sales." You'd like to disguise it like you're doing "something good for the industry" but it ain't workin'.

"In Germany, [the Nazis] first came for the Communists, and I did not speak up, because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak up, because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak up, because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I did not speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me – and by that time no one was left to speak up." –Martin Niemoller

And this is applicable today exactly how???

The industry was certainly headed in a direction where it would be irreparably harmed. A situation was being created where ALL the manufacturers could no longer support doing any new music and there was no one fighting to stop the spread of $300 hard drives loaded with everyone's back catalogs and most legitimate KJs were driven out of business leaving only the low quality $50-a-night KJs. One could forsee a situation where singers stopped coming because of poor quality shows with no new music and bars stopped using karaoke as a "draw" because EVERY bar had it and the "uniqueness" of it was gone.

YOU are NOT fighting to stop the "spread of $300 hard drives loaded with everyone's back catalogs" are you? Nope. There would be fewer "potential customers" if you do that. What do you care what a KJ charges per night? You don't run a karaoke show and your "current catalog" is available at a great financing rate for $0.67 song, so you're not really doing much to boost the "industry value" are you? Nope. But it makes for great sales copy doesn't it? I don't see you filing a suit against Craigslist, or Ebay or a BUNCH of drive sellers.... how many so far? Maybe ONE? You didn't have a problem filing against the giant United Parcel Service years ago when someone :winkpill: was sequentially tracking your customer list.

Well, I am pleased to say that on behalf of my own company and the remaining loyal customers who have begged and pushed for something to be done for years, we finally "spoke up" and are doing something about the situation. EVen if it is not "perfect". And I recognize that there will be those who benefit from the positive actions of others who will never acknowledge the benefits they receive because of the risks of others. I recognize that that is human nature - there will always be parasites willing to live off the efforts of others while even criticising the same efforts they are benefitting from.

[FLAG WAVING]
[SINGING]
Oh, beautiful, for spacious skies..
[/SINGING]
[/FLAG WAVING]

 

[Thunder Hag]

IN MY OPINION:
You are not out to stop the "insideous spread of piracy" by your own admission, you are out to make "customers out of pirates" so this is nothing magnanimous on your part, it's simply a newly identified "market for product sales." You'd like to disguise it like you're doing "something good for the industry" but it ain't workin'.



YOU are NOT fighting to stop the "spread of $300 hard drives loaded with everyone's back catalogs" are you? Nope. There would be fewer "potential customers" if you do that. What do you care what a KJ charges per night? You don't run a karaoke show and your "current catalog" is available at a great financing rate for $0.67 song, so you're not really doing much to boost the "industry value" are you? Nope. But it makes for great sales copy doesn't it? I don't see you filing a suit against Craigslist, or Ebay or a BUNCH of drive sellers.... how many so far? Maybe ONE? You didn't have a problem filing against the giant United Parcel Service years ago when someone :winkpill: was sequentially tracking your customer list.




WOW, I think you hit the nail on the head.
And why does "Sound Choice" assume that pirate shows are LOW QUALITY?
I have seen a few shows that do a really good job with the hard drives.
It is the same material that a legitimate KJ uses, doesn't it really come down
to the KJ's personality and equipment as to what determines a good Karaoke show?
I think that was a low blow, but based on there practices I am totally not surprised.

 

[Guest]

I don't know when a pirate goes from 7 systems to 1, it looks to me like it may be having an effect!

When a pirate is selling off everything he owns to hire an attorney, it looks to me like it may be having an effect!

When a pirate removes all Sound Choice from his/her system to avoid being named in a lawsuit, it looks to me like it may be having an effect!

When a pirate builds an entire website dedicated to fighting Sound Choice, it looks to me like it may be having an effect!

When a small town drops from 5 pirates down to 1 within a month of Sound Choice filing lawsuits in the state, it looks to me like it may be having an effect.

When venues are offering higher pay than they did just a year ago to get a legit host, it looks to me like it may be having an effect!

When legit 1:1 host are asking Sound Choice to audit their systems it looks to me like it may be having an effect!

When pirates are putting up signs in the venues they are working stating that they won't play any Sound Choice product, it looks to me like it may be having an effect!

When a pirates library suddenly drops from 60,000 songs to 35,000 songs, it looks to me like it may be having an effect!

 

[Diafel]

Your insinuations are becoming extremely tiring, Thunder. give it up, already.

 

[Guest]

What insinuations?

If they don't fit you why would you be concerned about them!

I am just stating it the way I see it, just as you state that Sound Choice is destroying karaoke!

I don't imagine that mine are anymore tiring than your's or Chip's or Big Joe's or anyone else who keeps harping on the subject at every opportunity.:biggrinpill:

 

[Thunder Hag]

Your insinuations are becoming extremely tiring, Thunder. give it up, already.

What is this guys beef with people who don't wholeheartedly agree with every word he spots? He put me on ignore he said because of my name...didn't even bother asking if there was a reason behind it, or if I was making fun of him. Some people! :yahthink: