GEM Series appears!

[KjAthena]

Umm, KJATHENA and Good Time Karaoke are one and the same. And since they have come out and openly stated that after all is said and done they understand why we named them and they are fully behind our actions.

So why do you feel that you have to cite their name in support of your rantings when they are not doing the same themselves?

And I don't know how much you have spent on Sound Choice products, but I would be willing to bet it was not enough to cover the 7 computerized systems that you used to run. Is all your protesting about "deflection"? (Although we do thank you for the product you did buy).

Do you hope to stir up enough support among other pirates so that if/when it's "your day in court" things will have changed in your favor? I suggest you contact your congressman if you want to effect such change.

Let's boil it down as simply as possible: If you do not have the rights to make or use a copy of someone else's intellectual property you are infringing their rights. Those who have content on a hard drive system/computer who don't even have an original copy of a CDG in their possession are undeniably infringers.

Again I will post that we do agree with SC and their actions and will continue to do so for any other manus that attack the pirates. I have been pretty chewed up because of my posts stating this and exspect more of the same but PIRACY is STEALING and I take it personally. We are anxiously awiating our KIAA and SafeHarbor cards and will display them proudly.
It seems to me that most of the complaining about SC and their attacks against piracy have come from people who are blowing smoke instead of facing up to the real issues. In a perfect world the Karaoke industry would have other options available to fight piracy....unfortunatly we do not live in a perfect world.
Ok I am off my soap box again

 

[c. staley]

And I don't know how much you have spent on Sound Choice products, but I would be willing to bet it was not enough to cover the 7 computerized systems that you used to run. Is all your protesting about "deflection"? (Although we do thank you for the product you did buy).

Do you hope to stir up enough support among other pirates so that if/when it's "your day in court" things will have changed in your favor? I suggest you contact your congressman if you want to effect such change.

Let's boil it down as simply as possible: If you do not have the rights to make or use a copy of someone else's intellectual property you are infringing their rights. Those who have content on a hard drive system/computer who don't even have an original copy of a CDG in their possession are undeniably infringers.

No deflection here, Kurt. Back when Joe Senter (your employee for S.P.I.N. back in 2001) was visiting and harassing my hosts, I was running 9 disc-based systems (yes, with a legal set of discs in each) that I had built from scratch over the course of the previous six (6) years. When I met my wife, she had her own system and another set of (legal) discs. Later, when I became digital, I consolidated those 10 sets into 7 systems, and continued to purchase discs. Are you following the math so far? Admittedly, not all the discs we purchased were Sound Choice, but I've spent a lot of money on your product that I now wished I hadn't.

Now I realize you haven't been around that much lately, but if you'll check the home page on this forum you will see that personal attacks, innuendo, insinuations and name calling are no longer acceptable here. You may not like fact that I have not joined the "Sound Choice Bandwagon," but calling me a pirate to discredit me is no longer allowed.

If you have controversial business practices and have put out a product that requires someone to sign over their left testicle (or both), you can't possibly expect that there will be no one speaking out in the negative.

 

[Sound Choice]

Personally, I would be MORE than welcome to share MY ideas as to how we should combat this, and it involves some communication with people which you probably might not want to talk to at first, but I think it's necessary, because I think piracy won't end, but it can be lessened if we first know the why. This is something I mentioned in a PM to someone on here, and I think it's worth a try (as long as it's not assuming that they WANT to be "crooks", and I put "crooks" in quotes because I still have my OWN opinions on what I think amounts to piracy).

Dark - I would welcome solid ideas from anyone. But if you are confused as to who is a "pirate" you might be starting on the wrong trail. Anyone who is using content that did not come from a legal source (defined as an original CDG that was used ONLY once as the source file for ONE copy ONE time) or who created a copy from a source that was not a legal CDG that they owned
(limited to ONE copy) IS A PIRATE. (Note: This is a simplified description of the requirements of the 1:1 concept).

To put it brutally honest, I really don't give a crap HOW a KJ chooses to run a show. He can be running things from a cassette tape deck for all I care (yes, that's a BIG exaggeration, but I'm trying to make a point here). If the host is fair to all the patrons, has a good rig, cares how it sounds, doesn't fight anyone, etc., then I'll give them some attention regardless. If the host is rude to me, the sound sucks, or whatnot, then I would just not go anymore (nothing will get a host kicked out better than people not coming because the host is an **** to you).

Hmm, unfortunately you seemed to have overlooked one IMPORTANT requirement - he should be LEGAL and at least following the 1:1 concept even if he has not yet obtained written permission from all rights holders for his format/media shift.

This is why I think a better plan needs to be in place: some people would pay to have their things on HD if given the fair opportunity. Great -but that should read EVERYONE would pay... and if you visit the Sound Choice site and follow the links to the GEM Series, you will find that "fair opportunity" in place!

 

[Sound Choice]

Still looking forward to you filing an action in NY Kurt...

Soon, very soon - NJ and NY.

 

[Sound Choice]

Kurt:just to be clear and so there isn't further misinformation, is that $100 the total amount for the series/discs in one's possesion?

Also, if you later start producing new music in the mp3+g fomat, will these disks fall under your current license or will you have to sign a 'new' agreement?


Finally just for the sake of my own clairification. When I die, everything of value that I own will be sold, and the money gets split between my niece and nephew? Would the discs be part of my estate?


thank you for your time

-James

Yes, the $100 would cover all licensed discs.

We will have "addendums" adding on all content covered under the license if you add to the originally licensed sets.

As for inheritance, technically we still own them and have not addressed "succession of possession" in case of death. Maybe I need to update the license to cover that. Howver, if your niece or nephew decided to run a karaoke show, then the license (upon proper transfer) could pass on to them.

 

[Guest]

Rick,

I know that you are a sponsor here but as a sponsor that does not give you the right to insinuate that I am or to call me a liar! It is against the policies of this board and again I ask you to stop it!

Unless of course the moderators and owner of this board feel that since you are a sponsor that it is OK and there are different rules depending on who the **** is!

 

[JoeChartreuse]

In regards to the GEM Series, you don't even own the plastic of the CD-ROM......

Kinda does it for me, business investment-wise. Don't want to pay more for less....but hey, that's just me...:sqwink:

 

[JoeChartreuse]

1) We are aware of many of Steve's DIRECT PURCHASES from us and he might have some other discs elsewhere. And Steve is aware that we are aware of his purchases. So, given all that I know that he has purchased (especially if he were so inclined, he could have easily obtained pirated copies), why would I go and spend money auditing someone I know for a fact has at least 250 of our discs, when there are so many others in his backyard who have none?

2) Why aren't you insisting I go audit Chip Staley, for example, when he has publicly stated in the past that he has run 7 computer based systems? Is it because he is also antagonistic towards Sound Choice so that you view him as one of your "buddies" in the "Anti-Sound Choice" camp? You are so virulently anti-Sound Choice you have tunnel vision; it's a good thing I don't. I would license you or Staley today if you were so inclined to license our product. We simply want to be paid for the use of our content - and the law says that we should also.

3) And yes, I know that you think the government should be policing this and you object to our investigative methods, blah, blah, blah, so don't waste time repeating yourself here, but you have not presented a better plan to combat piracy and get people to pay us and other producers, so until you have something positive to present to everyone, you also marginalize yourself.

1) You are aware of "many" of Steve's direct purchases. That makes him "1:1" in your book? Sorry, that tells you only that he has purchased those discs for which you have records- nothing more.

Also, once more, and for the record, this question was about SOUND CHOICE. I have no evidence that Steve has done anything wrong, and have made no claims that he has.

2) Nice twist, but completely invalid. I have NEVER requested that Steve be audited, nor ANYONE else. Just the opposite. I have recommended that no one submit to an audit by an unauthorized agency- ad nauseum.. I've got a forum full of people tired of hearing it to back that statement.There is nothing to be gained by it. What I HAVE asked is how SOUND CHOICE KNOWS Steve is legit. The answer is that you don't. My opinion is that you have just given a good customer a free pass. I actually think that's a good customer service move, but it should be presented in a more straightforward manner.

3) "but you have not presented a better plan to combat piracy"... Correct. However, you have stated outright that you are not out to fight piracy ( which is fine, it's not your job)- and nothing you are doing is making any impact on the thousands of pirates out there anyway. Why raise the subject?

 

[Sound Choice]

Kinda does it for me, business investment-wise. Don't want to pay more for less....but hey, that's just me...:sqwink:

Guess you don't understand how Intellectual Property Rights work - in IP there is nothing you can "touch" - it's all rights granted by a piece of paper (a license). But people pay millions (and tens of millions) of dollars for some rights. I don't know about you, but I would rather have the RIGHT to make Nike Shoes than a warehouse full of them.

The discs in your collection really aren't worth what you think they are - you basically only have the right to play them under certain conditions.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Soon, very soon - NJ and NY.

Oh good. Finally a pirate-free area of my own...

 

[JoeChartreuse]

The discs in your collection really aren't worth what you think they are - you basically only have the right to play them under certain conditions.

Got more rights with them than I would for your GEM series, and paid less. They are also a better music source than MP3s, which were never meant for use as a professional music source. They were designed for faster P2P transfer over what was a slower media, and storage in what was then expensive drive space.

Most importantly, my singers decided which products are most popular with them, and I provide it.

 

[Jon Tuck]

Which side of the neck did this come from?

And yes, I know that you think the government should be policing this and you object to our investigative methods, blah, blah, blah, so don't waste time repeating yourself here, but you have not presented a better plan to combat piracy and get people to pay us and other producers, so until you have something positive to present to everyone, you also marginalize yourself.

Kurt are you in this effort to get rid of piracy? I thought you said eons ago amongst all this BS that it wasnt your direction but for the illegal use of your logo. I find it extremely funny that in fact you give permission with the Gem series to transfer 1 to 1 and yet self admittedly cant guarantee that the artists etc couldnt come after these folks performing with your product as it is in fact illegal and depends on if they decided to then take action. This has been my stand all along and in fact I own none of your product. I certainly wouldnt at this point and time and I cant understand the loyalty to one who offers an illegal offering in which you give permission to copy (giving your blessings) for something tast is in fact piracy within itself.

 

[Sound Choice]

1)

3) "but you have not presented a better plan to combat piracy"... Correct. However, you have stated outright that you are not out to fight piracy ( which is fine, it's not your job)- and nothing you are doing is making any impact on the thousands of pirates out there anyway. Why raise the subject?

Nice try - you conveniently forgot the rest of my sentence which was "you have not presented a better plan to combat piracy and get people to pay us and other producers". So what is your solution to that if you object to us doing investigations and audits and filing suits? And as several have said here (which you also seem to "edit out" as you did my statement) THEY ARE seeing their ability to charge more improve, so our activities are having some positive effect.

So, if our efforts made "customers" out of former pirates and all existing legitimate hosts were to keep their gigs AND get paid more for them, what would you complain about then? That would seem to be a rather ideal solution for all parties. The "pirates", by virtue of paying more for their sets to get legal, give up some of their previous profits, but stay in business to help support the purchase of new songs by us, the existing legal hosts get paid more for their work and unless they really wanted to expand and get more shows, they are not harmed going forward and we get restitution and an expanded customer base. Or would your REAL gripe be that Sound Choice did not go out of business?

Don't bother to answer, I realized I just wasted valuable time in responding to you when I promised I would not bother with you. So, you "won" this round.

 

[Loneavenger]

Most importantly, my singers decided which products are most popular with them, and I provide it.

Not to veer off topic too much Joe, but i'm just curious. I know for a fact that 95 percent of my singers prefer Sound Choice Products over all others with the exception of a few country tracks from Chartbuster that a couple of my singers Love. What Karaoke is it that your singers want to sing, because here it's pretty universal that without Sound Choice you're not taken seriously.

 

[Jon Tuck]

Okay but if you are using any other format than CDG

you are still a pirate in the eyes of the artists etc if they so decide to take any action. Kurt admits this whole hearted. I have issue with the degree of piracy one feels good about themselves with.:sqcool:

Again I will post that we do agree with SC and their actions and will continue to do so for any other manus that attack the pirates. I have been pretty chewed up because of my posts stating this and exspect more of the same but PIRACY is STEALING and I take it personally. We are anxiously awiating our KIAA and SafeHarbor cards and will display them proudly.
It seems to me that most of the complaining about SC and their attacks against piracy have come from people who are blowing smoke instead of facing up to the real issues. In a perfect world the Karaoke industry would have other options available to fight piracy....unfortunatly we do not live in a perfect world.
Ok I am off my soap box again

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Nice try - you conveniently forgot the rest of my sentence which was "you have not presented a better plan to combat piracy and get people to pay us and other producers". So what is your solution to that if you object to us doing investigations and audits and filing suits? And as several have said here (which you also seem to "edit out" as you did my statement) THEY ARE seeing their ability to charge more improve, so our activities are having some positive effect.
.

Not looking to WIN anything, just to make some sense. I edited the rest out because, as you have stated, and with which I agree, I have no perfect answer to your problem. Then again, I didn't cause it, and I haven't made it my life's work to do your research for you.

Others have come up with interesting ideas though. Maybe a new media? An encrypted flash drive that would have to be used with a registration like software might work, but then it would HAVE to be used with a PC, and would leave no " transfer to PC at your own risk" wiggle room. Up to YOU to find a customer friendly answer.

As to what others PERCEIVE- I can't help that. Athena gave you credit for the disappearance of 5 pirates, but said outright that they were never named by you in any way. Others claim one or two closed, and gave you credit as well. Steve hasn't said anything about closings, but attributes a recent upsurge in business to you. However, no one has actually shown that you have actually done ANYTHING in this regard.

But wait. Let's say their perceptions are correct. I think I've read about slightly less than 20 people that others have attributed to you.

There are THOUSANDS out there. No dent.

I don't even object to your filing suits, but only after THOROUGH INVESTIGATION.

I don't object to you ASKING for audits. I object to using a refusal to lose time and money as a basis to file suit.

I object to the fact that you seem to be using the display of your logo from a PC source as a basis to file suit. I'm not saying that you CAN'T do any of these things legally, I'm saying that I, and apparently a large part of what was your customer base based on recent posts, find it unethical and intrusive.

BTW- before you hit NJ, you might ask council to research this state's position on Restraint Of Trade....That's stated ONLY to be of help.

Also, a promise on my part: If you come to NJ and make any SIGNIFICANT dent in piracy, I will personally thank you on this forum, and will also list all that you did here.

You know what? Let me be more specific about "significant". Cause 100 pirates to either close down or raise their rates to the are standard in the entire state of NJ. There are WAY more than enough pirates here. 100 would probably not even be 10%, but I'd except it.

 

[Sound Choice]

Kurt are you in this effort to get rid of piracy? I thought you said eons ago amongst all this BS that it wasnt your direction but for the illegal use of your logo. I find it extremely funny that in fact you give permission with the Gem series to transfer 1 to 1 and yet self admittedly cant guarantee that the artists etc couldnt come after these folks performing with your product as it is in fact illegal and depends on if they decided to then take action. This has been my stand all along and in fact I own none of your product. I certainly wouldnt at this point and time and I cant understand the loyalty to one who offers an illegal offering in which you give permission to copy (giving your blessings) for something tast is in fact piracy within itself.

Nice try Jon, but it is all of you who have format/media shifted ALREADY OR outright stolen content that have caused the problems being discussed. Only disc based users (who have not created bootleg copies of the discs) are without "fault". And again you either don't understand what I have written regarding what we are licensing or you also are taking things incorrectly out of context to try to prove a conclusion that you have derived without benefit of a progressive and logical train of thought.

OUR product is not illegal, nor is our license, we are only able to provide a license for our portion of the IP rights and we inform the Licensee that they are responsible for obtaining all other third party rights. Heck our licenses with publishers state similar things - they license us according to their terms for their portion of a song and it's up to us to obtain the balance of the rights. And by the way, we have nothing (business-wise) to do with "artists" as long as we are not using their name and likeness to promote the product. We work with song writers and their publishers - so once again please get your facts and definitions straight before you accuse us of something.

We have several of you exhorting us for not devising a better "solution" to lugging around crates of discs and I am constantly reminding you that I can't create a solution on my own because I don't control all the rights. If the publishers were to come after all of the format/media shifters AND/OR the pirates (who don't own any legal content), I would be glad if they did, because then OUR IP rights would be less likely to be infringed upon). But I can't MAKE them protect their IP, it's their choice if they decide (at this moment) to do nothing. But Sound Choice IS deciding to do something about the theft of its property AND to try to introduce a better product for those who do decide to take the risk of an "illegal" (according to the publishers) media shift from a LEGAL original media to another media and thereby creating another copy.

Once more...we have chosen to not continue suits against those who decide to media shift and grant them that right if they maintain 1:1 and it is up to them to decide if it's a risk that they want to take in regards to the publishers if they have not obtained such permissions. So, we have been able to offer a solution that is much more legal than completely pirated content and the publishers, by virture of getting paid by us, at least get some revenue, thereby decreasing the possibility of them going after a KJ for media shifting.

For those KJs who are not 1:1, I would say that you have a greatly increased chance of being sued by a publisher as well as the Karaoke Producer as time goes on.

 

[Jon Tuck]

Kurt I have not shifted as I still hold my discs and would have loved to hold some SC but in recent times am so damned glad I never spent money on your product. Oh and by the way nice try.I am not a pirate and dont use a computer to further the possibility.

 

[Sound Choice]

But wait. Let's say their perceptions are correct. I think I've read about slightly less than 20 people that others have attributed to you.

There are THOUSANDS out there. No dent.

.

Well, since we have only filed against about 100 defendants to date (not including the most recent, which was only a few weeks ago and too early to have any impact) and you have read about 20 people (and of course OURDJTALK does not represent the entire cosmos of Karaoke Hosts), that would mean that there are now AT LEAST 20% fewer pirates near where we have taken actions. I would say that is a pretty good track record.

As for the thousands "out there" - do you expect these thousands to immediately disappear? If so you have no concept of reality and as I wrote earlier, you are so blinded by your own prejudice against us, that you simply can't allow yourself to give us any credit or acknowledge anything positive. As others have asked, and I admit I am very curious myself, what is it that has generated this within you?

As for your "Challenge" of getting rid of pirates in NJ, we don't owe you anything nor do we have to prove anything to you. But even though you failed my counter to your challenge regarding our song licenses, I will give you another chance and offer you a "counter" challenge in regards to getting rid of pirates.

For every ten pirates we either get rid of or make pay a higher cost to be in business, YOU have to do the same with one. So one for every ten that we get rid of or make pay - only 10%! That should be doable for you, since you have all the answers.

We'll make this a long term challenge since we want you to have every possibility to identify the "pirate" properly so you do not falsely accuse anyone. So, six months from August 1, 2010, we'll do the tally. Are you going to accept this or were you just shooting of your mouth again?

And by the way, suing someone for IP infringement has nothing to do with "restraint of trade" since no one has a right to "trade" by illegally infringing IP rights.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Not to veer off topic too much Joe, but i'm just curious. I know for a fact that 95 percent of my singers prefer Sound Choice Products over all others with the exception of a few country tracks from Chartbuster that a couple of my singers Love. What Karaoke is it that your singers want to sing, because here it's pretty universal that without Sound Choice you're not taken seriously.

I don't doubt you, Lone. The preferences I've noted seem to be both regional and length of karaoke interest time related.

In my area, the northeast coast, we have a LOT of long time karaoke singers. The kind that also like to bring their own discs...

While I'm not saying SC is not popular, around here the were beaten to the punch by others.

DK was THE gold standard before being out-marketed by SC in other areas. Still popular here.

Music Maestro is known as THE doo-wop/ 50's brand

Chartbuster is the most popular for country.

ANY mfr. is more popular for Elvis than SC.

Zoom has made IMMENSE gains in popularity.

More on Pop:


Keep in mind that I've been at this forever, and my disc library includes a whole bunch of many mfrs. products collected over the years.



For some reason, most of my singers LOVE SuperCore, which as you may know, is akin to Amerising and All Hits. I don't claim they are better, but my singers have made them THE most popular brand. I think it's because the set is not that expensive, and they practice at home with them.

Whatever the reason, I can say without question that DK and SuperCore make up the largest portion of tracks used in my shows.

Yes, I carry Monster Hits, Radio Starz, Zoom, Priddis, Music Maestro, Pocket Songs, Disney, Dr. Music, Memorex, Lost Classics, Karaoke Classics, etc., EMI/Windswept, Capitol Karaoke (AU), Karaoke Hits, Legends, Sunfly, BCI, some Pop & Top Hits ( not many) etc., etc., etc.....

Yes, I also have some mfrs. that even I consider to be pretty much drink coasters, but the customer is always right. It's not my fault they consider Backstage their favorite Neil Diamond, or a SAV George Michael tune, or MTV's rap songs, or Medacy's Karaoke Party Country ( Although these are pretty darn good, believe it or not) over what I consider a "better" brand.

Again, these types of mfrs. are inexpensive, and probably what they practice with at home. The average casual singer isn't going to lay out for an SC brick, or a CB Essentials. They just want the most songs for the buck.

A Sinatra singer goes out and spends a few bucks on SGB-33, and he's got a disc full of nothing but Sinatra to practice at home. When he goes out, he doesn't want to sing a different version.

Another possibility about SuperCore. They were a starter set for me when I went to CDG from Laser, and my long time singers may just have gotten used to them.

Part of being a good host is to give them what they want.

As for Sound Choice: Of the few discs that I have (20? 25? out of around 1200 discs that I generally carry- I carry a a little bit more- mostly foreign language- for private parties), I use maybe 20 songs. You could go a month without hearing an SC track being used.

I will say that in general, their duets are popular and probably the best source for them, I think because the parts are so well differentiated on the screen. However, except for duets, no one really requests them.

New entries to the karaoke scene have been subjected to the Sound Choice name to the saturation point, thanks to good marketing on their part. Newer hosts have the name burned into their brain, and head toward them. New singers, who know nothing one way or the other still have brand recognition, boosted by new KJ advice. SC would be more popular in these areas and groups.

I would like to add that though I have differences with SC NOW, that's not the reason I didn't by a bunch when initially building my library. More a matter of popularity vs expense at the time. They were more expensive than most mfrs.at that time, and nowhere near as popular.